>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Rob Schoening [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> > Sent: Sunday, April 11, 1999 8:11 PM
> > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Subject: RE: JSP Suggestions!
> >
> >
> > > > Problem:
> > > > JSP is becoming too complex.
> > > > The current vision as discussed emphasizes "model
> > > > 2".
> > >
> > > Agree - Model 1 should be the emphasized Model for two reasons:
> > > 1)Model 2 hinders bean interoperability. A bean written for Model
> > > 2 can only
> > > be used with its Model 2 servlet.
> > > 2) Model 2 is more difficult for newbies because you need to know how to
> > > write a servlet, how to dispatch or redirect, etc.
> >
> > Although model two is poorly explained in the spec, it is neither
> > difficult,
> > nor does it hinder bean interoperablity. You can pass *ANY* bean to a JSP
> > page.
>
> I must reassert that interoperability can be hindered. Ask yourself this,
> can my Model 2 JSP Beans work without the Model 2 servlet they were created
> to work with? The answer is no. Could they work with some other Model 2
> servlet written for an entirely different application? Again, the answer is
> no. If you have Model 2 JSP Beans they are Model 2 JSP Beans and will not
> work with Model 1 because they require their custom-written servlet for
> things like establishing connections and routing logic. That said, there is
> nothing wrong with Model 2 and in custom applications it is a viable and
> perhaps recommended alternative to Model 1.
I agree model 2 is recommended (because the current spec is broken). Beans
must be more interoperable and we have the tools to do it in java. JSP
can become a component technology with the HTML do gooders HTML'ing and
the coders coding. It is soo crucial to seperate tasks!
>
> > The utility of Model 2 is that you can use your existing beans to
> > create a dynamic web interface for your "legacy" system without
> > writing new
> > business objects.
> >
> > As for newbies creating semi-complex systems in JSP (w/o Servlets)...good
> > luck. Without model two, JSP is a project manager's worst nightmare.
>
> That is a good point. With Model 2, all logic down to what JSP page to
> redirect to is controlled by the Model 2 servlet(s). That may be easier then
> having the logic present in multiple JSP pages. However, that also means the
> Model 2 servlet(s) have to do more processing for each request to figure out
> what JSP page to route the request to. Using Model 1 JSPs, the JSP page
> links to the next appropriate JSP page completely eliminating the logic that
> would have been required in the Model 2 servlet.
>
> Example:
> Model 1
>
> Situation
> user is on a.jsp and clicks on a link to x.jsp
>
> Logic:
> No runtime logic necessary since the JSP developer already coded the links
>
> Flow:
> a.jsp -> x.jsp
>
> ----
> Model 2
>
> Situation:
> user is on a.jsp and clicks on /servlet/mod2servlet?var=x
>
> Logic:
> if the query string is var=x, route to x.jsp, otherwise route to y.jsp.
>
> Flow:
> a.jsp -> mod2servlet (processing) -> x.jsp
>
> To Rob and others - does that make sense? Can you see why Model 1 is
> important. Model 1 is how HTMLers do business. Model 1 is the traditional
> HTML application that all HTMLers understand. Model 2 is not.
I very much agree! But... I believe that Model 1 can be enhanced to
eliminate the pressing need for model 2 (redirection is difficult but
doable). We could all be writing reusable components for HTML developers
if our champions of JSP can make it possible. Isn't that the point of
OOP? Give me a new career (pleez)
Good luck,
-jason
>
> I look forward to comments from others,
>
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