Do we have to sink to this? Reasonable people should be able to disagree
and maintain a civil tone. How about it?
-----Original Message-----
From: Kirkdorffer, Daniel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Tuesday, November 09, 1999 12:21 PM
Subject: Re: JSP vs Servlets?
>Since Mr. Wells appears hell bent on telling us all that webmacro "was
>recently selected as one of the best three servlet
>products of 1999 by the Java report" here is the actual category it was
>selected in:
>
>Servlet Tools, Components, & Frameworks
>
>Java Report also had the following categories:
>
>Application Servers
>Compilers & VMs
>Database Middleware
>Database Tools
>GUI Components
>IDEs
>Testing Tools
>Third-Party Components
>Utilities
>Web Authoring & Management Tools
>
>Note: no category for best specification, go figure.
>
>In the Servlet Tools, Components, & Frameworks category the winners were
>(Jason Hunter please take a bow...):
>
>COM.OREILLY.SERVLET PACKAGE:
>JASON HUNTER
>
>SERVLETEXEC:
>NEW ATLANTA COMMUNICATIONS
>
>WEBMACRO SERVLET FRAMEWORK:
>SEMIOTEK INC.
>
>Hurl your url to http://www.javareport.com/html/products/wr_choice.shtml
for
>the complete list of winners.
>
>That's about as much advertising of webmacro that I think the readers of
>either of these lists are interested in.
>
>Dan
>
>
>> ----------
>> From: Justin Wells[SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
>> Reply To: A mailing list for discussion about Sun Microsystem's Java
>> Servlet API Technology.
>> Sent: Tuesday, November 09, 1999 11:41 AM
>> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> Subject: Re: JSP vs Servlets?
>>
>> Quoting Jay Macarty ([EMAIL PROTECTED]):
>> > Frank,
>> > JSP is useful in a number of situations as summarized below:
>> >
>> > 1. JSP "hides" much of the nuts-and-bolts of the servlet code. When
used
>> in
>> > combination with Java beans, a developer without a detailed background
>> in
>> > servlets, say a person normally responsible for HTML page layout, can
>> still
>> > construct a powerful and useful web application.
>>
>> This is not an advantage of JSP over servlets, assuming that the servlet
>> writer chooses to use one of the template systems available.
>>
>> In fact, it's a disadvantage because with a good template system the
>> servlet writer can do an even better job of the separation.
>>
>>
>> > 2. JSP helps separate presentation from program logic. Even though the
>> final
>> > code generated by the JSP procedure builds the needed code to write out
>> the
>> > HTML, it is much easier to simply update the HTML in the JSP file and
>> > arrange things how ever you want and let the processor handle the
>> details.
>> > This even opens the door to allowing a page layout designer do the HTML
>> > while a Java programmer codes the logic.
>>
>> JSP does a very poor job of this, since by design it encourages you to
>> freely mix Java and HTML in the .jsp file.
>>
>> A good template system does a much better job of effecting this
>> separation.
>> In fact, JSP only really provides you with support for a model versus
>> view+controller separation--it takes a template system to realize the
>> full value of the model/view/controller design.
>>
>> The model is your collection of Java beans, coming out of your EJB
server,
>> or your database, or whatever. Your servlet is the controller,
implemented
>> in 100% pure Java, and takes responsibility over controlling the session
>> (loading objects, authenticating the user, selecting the result data,
>> deciding on what view to return). Obviously the templates become the
>> view portion of the design.
>>
>> With JSP it's easy to use beans plus JSP gunk, but harder to effect
>> the full three way separation (harder in the sense that there is
>> absolutely no architectural support for doing so. You have to
>> remember to maintain the separation yourself, at every single point.)
>>
>> > 3. As mentioned briefly above, JSP's ability to take advantage of Java
>> beans
>> > can be a very useful tool in building applications.
>>
>> WebMacro can do this as well--it uses introspection much the same way
>> that JSP does, only in a template model. Other template systems, such
>> as FreeMarker, can come close, though you have to write adapters.
>>
>>
>> > 4. Because of JSP's tendency to look like Microsoft Active Server
Pages,
>> > ASP, in many respects, it is sometimes easier for a developer making
the
>> > transition from ASP to servlets to start out with JSP.
>>
>> This is an advantage of JSP. Though not one I'd be proud of.
>>
>> > I would not say that a developer should choose either JSP or servlet
>> > development exclusively but I think JSP certainly has its place and I
am
>> in
>> > the process of converting some of my pages to JSP which seem to be a
>> better
>> > fit (i.e. an application log-in page).
>>
>> I think JSP is suitable for quickly hacked together applications where
>> design is not an issue. I tend to use perl in such situations, though,
>> since it's more rapid development than Java.
>>
>> When I move to Java, it's because there are bigger issues, and then
>> design becomes important. So I stick to servlets with templates.
>>
>> Of course, as the creator of WebMacro I'm entirely biased. Although I
>> created WebMacro because of the bias, not the other way around.
>>
>> WebMacro is a free template system which you can download and use at
>> no charge. It was recently selected as one of the best three servlet
>> products of 1999 by the Java report.
>>
>> http:/webmacro.org
>>
>>
>> Justin
>>
>>
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>
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