I a well funded company. Designer = responsible for design, graphics, flash content Sitebuilder = responsible for making sure design does not break html/xslt code template design based on design Programmer = create logic or functions and responsible for function integration Database Admin = responsible with the uml design of db object realted to the programming and maintenence of database data and servers Project Manager = responsibile for the project Team Lead = responsible for the programmers Architect = responsible for the design of the overall system.
I a company with tight budgets. Designer = responsible for design, graphics, flash content, responsible for making sure design does not break html/xslt code template design based on design Programmer = responsible for the design of the overall system, create logic or functions and responsible for function integration, responsible with the uml design of db object realted to the programming and maintenence of database data and servers Project Manager = responsibile for the project ----- Original Message ----- From: "Haseltine, Celeste" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Tuesday, May 28, 2002 1:01 PM Subject: Re: Separation of HTML and Java work in a JSP Carlos, I don't know of anyone who actually works this way in the real world. In fact, we hired a jr individual who had no actual programming background, including JavaScript, but did know HTML and could really create neat graphics using Adobe Photoshop, FlashMX, etc. Trying to teach him how to write JSP's and some JavaScript, using only JSP tag libraries and HTML for the JSP's, has been more effort than it's really worth. Although he tries very hard, he has no background or experience by which to be able to "debug" his JSP's or JavaScript. And trying to get him to understand basic logic such as for loops, for each, do until, if then else, switch/case, etc, has been difficult. He is GREAT HTML and graphics artist. But he does not have the mindset to "visualize" how to "code" his JPS's to produce the "final" HTML. I think this theory of using HTML/graphic artist types to create JSP's, and using only your higher paid developers to create the backend using servlets/Java Beans, etc, has come from both University/professor types who have NO real world experience, and MBA/management types than those who are more technical (with some business background) like us. In theory it sounds great, and to a high level manager with no actual technical background/experience, it's the type of organizational structure that they would eat up hook, line, and sinker, particularly since they can hire HTML/graphic artist types at about 1/3 of what a mid level developer costs. After going through it here with a total of 5 people on this project, I would never recommend this type of setup in the real world. Especially if your a large development shop. Your suggestion of using JR developers to create the JSP's is more in line with my experience in the real world. As they gain experience and knowledge of the product and the corporate culture, some of them will want to move into the backend development, while others may want to specialize in creating only custom tag libraries or deployment/upkeep of websites. And for the most part, they have the background and the "mindset" to visualize what they need to do and how to accomplish that in a JSP page. Just my two cents worth. If anyone out there is really implementing this "model" of using non-programmers to create JSP pages in their development shops, I would be interested in knowing how well this has worked for you, if you have any hard "cost savings" data that you can share, and whether you would continue to use this model on future development projects. Celeste -----Original Message----- From: Carlos Vicente [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, May 28, 2002 11:36 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Separation of HTML and Java work in a JSP Uhhhm. Really anybody works this way? In any Enterprise, the web designers are the responsible of create the jsp�s with tools such dreamweaver? I hear a lot such situation but i don�t know anybody that work this way. I think that usually are programmers (web programers but programmers(usually the juniors)) wich take the HTML(only html) generated by the designers and insert all the jsp and java stuff. Really JSP is a java class and is very dangerous that people that don�t understand java programming touch a JSP(a designer can understand a compilation error from the tomcat, Jrun, etc?). If your project is very large is usual that certain programmers, work with the logic stuff(beans, servlets, taglibs, ejb�s.....) and other programmers (web programmers) work with jsp or another template engines (velocity, xsl....). But if anybody works this way, I�m happy to hear their impressions. -----Mensaje original----- De: A mailing list about Java Server Pages specification and reference [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]En nombre de Greg Dunn Enviado el: martes, 28 de mayo de 2002 18:10 Para: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Asunto: Re: Separation of HTML and Java work in a JSP In a perfect world, no Java code would go in the JSP itself, it would all be in servlets, custom tags or beans. Then the designer only needs to know how to insert code for a tag or bean and what information the tags or bean will return; and which servlet to use as a form action or whatever. Designers can also use something like Dreamweaver to help with tag libraries. Greg -----Original Message----- From: A mailing list about Java Server Pages specification and reference [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Luis Javier Beltr�n Sent: Tuesday, May 28, 2002 11:01 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Separation of HTML and Java work in a JSP Hi everybody, I'm a bit confused about the way JSPs should be programmed. Which is the correct way to separate HTML design from Java logic? should a person be responsible for the HTML and another person should take this result and program the logic? but the presentation changes depending on the parameters passed, so all these posibilities should be programmed by the designer? I think the most practical way is that a person should know about design and Java. Is this right? Thanks a lot! Luis Javier =========================================================================== To unsubscribe: mailto [EMAIL PROTECTED] with body: "signoff JSP-INTEREST". For digest: mailto [EMAIL PROTECTED] with body: "set JSP-INTEREST DIGEST". Some relevant FAQs on JSP/Servlets can be found at: http://archives.java.sun.com/jsp-interest.html http://java.sun.com/products/jsp/faq.html http://www.esperanto.org.nz/jsp/jspfaq.jsp http://www.jguru.com/faq/index.jsp http://www.jspinsider.com =========================================================================== To unsubscribe: mailto [EMAIL PROTECTED] with body: "signoff JSP-INTEREST". For digest: mailto [EMAIL PROTECTED] with body: "set JSP-INTEREST DIGEST". Some relevant FAQs on JSP/Servlets can be found at: http://archives.java.sun.com/jsp-interest.html http://java.sun.com/products/jsp/faq.html http://www.esperanto.org.nz/jsp/jspfaq.jsp http://www.jguru.com/faq/index.jsp http://www.jspinsider.com =========================================================================== To unsubscribe: mailto [EMAIL PROTECTED] with body: "signoff JSP-INTEREST". For digest: mailto [EMAIL PROTECTED] with body: "set JSP-INTEREST DIGEST". Some relevant FAQs on JSP/Servlets can be found at: http://archives.java.sun.com/jsp-interest.html http://java.sun.com/products/jsp/faq.html http://www.esperanto.org.nz/jsp/jspfaq.jsp http://www.jguru.com/faq/index.jsp http://www.jspinsider.com ========================= To unsubscribe: mailto [EMAIL PROTECTED] with body: "signoff JSP-INTEREST". For digest: mailto [EMAIL PROTECTED] with body: "set JSP-INTEREST DIGEST". Some relevant FAQs on JSP/Servlets can be found at: http://archives.java.sun.com/jsp-interest.html http://java.sun.com/products/jsp/faq.html http://www.esperanto.org.nz/jsp/jspfaq.jsp http://www.jguru.com/faq/index.jsp http://www.jspinsider.com =========================================================================== To unsubscribe: mailto [EMAIL PROTECTED] with body: "signoff JSP-INTEREST". For digest: mailto [EMAIL PROTECTED] with body: "set JSP-INTEREST DIGEST". Some relevant FAQs on JSP/Servlets can be found at: http://archives.java.sun.com/jsp-interest.html http://java.sun.com/products/jsp/faq.html http://www.esperanto.org.nz/jsp/jspfaq.jsp http://www.jguru.com/faq/index.jsp http://www.jspinsider.com
