Janne did sound a tad cranky. I think he was simply offering advice
similar to what my boss used to say when I'd bring him a problem. He
would say, "don't bring me a monkey without bringing me the cage too."
I'd echo most of what he said. The goals of 2.8 were to have an Apache-
licensed version, with very few API changes and a modest set of
enhancements. This puts us on track to do the real Apache release,
with the org.apache structure, for 3.0.
Murray, I know that your Ceryle integration work has been substantial.
Clearly, that's a significant investment in your time. Certainly, we
need to do a better job summarizing the key changes between versions
so that ports and recompilations are as smooth as possible. I'm
looking into tools like JarJarDiff that help spotlight API changes.
Also, quick summaries of changes for developers and deployers would be
good. The Stripes folks do this quite well, and I'm planning on
copying their format.
Andrew
On Jun 29, 2008, at 6:03 PM, Murray Altheim wrote:
Janne Jalkanen wrote:
And to reiterate: Can you give us a firm schedule by which time you
*have* looked at all of the code? Can you commit to it?
When could we start releasing new functionality?
Next week?
Next month?
In six months?
Next year?
Janne,
You sound angry. I wasn't asking you to slow everything down, I was
only asking that you *consider* that some of us are having difficulty
keeping up with all the changes that have been going on. I don't
think my situation is unusual. That you look at everything daily and
don't understand it all is understandable, a bit worrying but fine.
And to be clear, it's not a lack of motivation on my part, it's a
lack of time.
Some of the issues I have with the speed of change are my own, some
due to not understanding (i.e., not seeing documentation for, whether
it exists or not I don't know) what's happening. There's a certain
point in anyone's work where the frequency of change reaches a state
where *everything* becomes a bit of a blur, and I've reached that
state. It's not my fault, not your fault, it's not JSPWiki's fault.
It's just having a lot going on.
And no, of course I have no problem with the reasons behind or the
delivery of 2.8. I understand its necessity.
> We need to be way more specific as to what the issues are rather
> than to "slow down". We need to know exactly what breaks, what
> works, and what can we do to increase our rate of change in a way
> which does not bother people who only occasionally peek into the
> codebase. Because as JSPWiki grows larger and better and attracts
> more developers (as an Apache project probably will) - the rate
> of change *will* increase.
I agree wholeheartedly with the above. As with anything in a
volunteer project, we need eyeballs and worker bees. I'd love to
see specific documentation as you describe but I'm myself maxed
out right now and can't volunteer to write documentation; I'm way
behind on my own. Part of my worry is that I'm losing track of
what's going on. Maybe you're comfortable with that. I certainly
trust the other developers at the level of trusting the code,
e.g., I don't know know how the AAA code works but I trust that
it does. It's more a matter of sometimes not even knowing some
code or feature even exists, or if it does there's almost no
documentation, or I can't find the documentation. As an example,
(my fault or not, not the point) I didn't even *know* the
jspwiki_module.xml file existed when I proposed the idea of a
plugin administration feature. I hadn't had the chance to locate
it, and I hadn't seen anything in the documentation about it.
To reiterate, I'm not trying to be critical here, I'm only trying
to let you know that some of us are struggling to keep up. Some
of this might be mitigated by better documentation (or even a map
of the existing documentation, as it's sometimes hard to find
things) but I know you're as strapped for time as anyone. But as
more developers get involved in the project I'm hoping this
situation will improve, not get worse.
Murray
...........................................................................
Murray Altheim <murray07 at altheim.com>
=== = =
http://www.altheim.com/murray/ =
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SGML Grease Monkey, Banjo Player, Wantanabe Zen Monk =
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Inexhaustible heaven and earth - the light beyond light,
The willow dark, the flower bright - ten thousand houses,
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