Hi, I guess I'll weigh in on this, it isn't technical, but it does bring up some interesting traps that you might fall into. And since some of it is controversial, remember "these are just my views, I could be wrong". My intepretation is rather cynical, but someone has to defend that view. The disclaimer applies to any post I make.
On point 1, even if Jboss is a commercial organization, so what ? So is Sun, does that mean they should never be allowed to speak at a java meeting. To the best extent possible, you should give everyone who wants to a chance to speak. The listeners are the final judge. On point 2, I don't necessarily think that group sponsorship is a requirement for giving a talk. Maybe groups who sponser should be entitled to a place at the table based on their support. But the oversight board is responsible to make reasonable judgements on anyone else they would like to speak. I don't know what legal agreement was signed relevant to sponsorship. But it is *very* important to read any legal agreement you sign fully. Most legal agreements have clauses in them that state that the legal agreeement represents the full product of negotiations on the transaction. That really means that a salesman can say absolutely anything he wants to you to get you to sign an agreement. Once you have signed it, the lawyers will say anything the salesman said is irrelevant. I know this is a little bit of a radical interpretation, and there are some "deceptive business practice laws", but I think they just give people a false sense of security and are useless. The only recent application of them was getting rid of the psychic friends network. Someone finally decided it's a little deceptive to base a business model on 1. the existance of psychic phonomenon and 2. the idea that it could be transmitted though an electromagnetic field. And that may not even be the reason they eliminated it. So these rules don't have much impact. In the java world, these things also apply. It doesn't matter if someone says they are an engineer. They are still selling, so they are a salesman. They will tell you half the story, in order to get you to sign. You must do your own homework. And there are counterintuitive agreements in the java world. The J2EE containter shootout brought out the fact that BEA doesn't want you doing comparisons if you use BEA. I do have some technical sympathy for the argument they make (comparisons are difficult). But it does look suspicious and that may not be the only reason it is in the legal agreement. Always read the legal agreement first. And assume it will be used against you. Let the buyer beware. I also thought the point about academic institutions was pretty funny. It may be literally true they are not sponsored by companies, but that's only half the story. For years, companies have been donating equipment to schools to influence the purchasing habits of students. The universities have been a battleground over OS for years. When ms donates computers, I don't think they run Linux and ms may try to stop them from running Linux using a legal agreement. On point 3, so what if it is not certified. Lots of very intelligent people are not "certified". That doesn't mean anything. Alot of certifications are just a way for vendors to make more money. I believe in the case of the Sun J2EE container certification, there was an original policy of "pay to play". To put it mildly, some people in the apache organization were disappointed with this policy. Certification isn't the issue, it is the java board's responsibility to pick the talks that would interest its members given time, place, and manner constraints. This may come off a little negative, and there may be a salesmen with integrity. And I don't have anything against the commercial presenters at the J2EE shootout. But it is still your responsibility to validate what they say independently and ask the tough questions. Hopefully, that what a good jug allows you to do. --- "Andrew C. Oliver" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > What do you guys think of this: > > http://www.shiftat.com/blog/page/werner/20030527#sun_reaffirms_no_jboss_at > > Note that as long as I'm president, the TriJUG won't > put up with this kind > of thing. > Good thing you won't. If you were willing to put up with this sort of thing, you would have lost my vote for president. Not that my vote matters much. Bill Gooding __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Calendar - Free online calendar with sync to Outlook(TM). http://calendar.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ Juglist mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://trijug.org/mailman/listinfo/juglist_trijug.org
