Thanks for the suggestion Eric. I will give APT a look. The Sunburned Surveyor
On 10/18/07, Eric Lemesre <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hi, > > HTML and PDF are two format with her respective particularity. > Personnaly I preffer print a PDF, but on my linuxbox i preffer html. > In my PDA i like use plucker (and html source) for build ebook. > > Some body on Windows platform like CHM (simply html with script). > > I think APT "Almost Plain Text" is miraculous ;-) solution. > You can generate lot of output : HMTL, LaTeX, PostScript, PDF, DocBook and > RTF. > You can use aptconvert ( > http://www.xmlmind.com/_aptconvert/docs/userguidetoc.html) > to do this. > > and maven use this document source for build site. > > Eric > > 2007/10/18, Sunburned Surveyor < [EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > > > > Larry, > > > > I'm sorry if I offended you. That was not my intention. I you, Paul, > > and I were having a healthy discussion. > > > > I'm really trying to work together with the other programmers. That is > > why I posted the PDF for others to comment on to begin with. I'm > > certainly not suggesting that is what other plug-in programmers use, > > or even that we use PDF help docs in the core. I was just throwing out > > what I was using on my plug-in to see what other programmers thought. > > > > You often provide me with helpful suggestions and an insightful > > perspective on programming in general. I hope I have not soured that > > opportunity for future feedback from you with something I said. > > > > If this is the case, please let me know what I need to do to correct it. > > > > Thanks, > > > > Landon > > > > On 10/17/07, Larry Becker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > I'm open for suggestions. > > > > > > Obviously, you're not. In fact you're become a bit of a troll. > > > Personally, I'm not going to wast any more collective bandwidth on > > > this issue. The little bit of information in your PDF file would be > > > better served as a tooltip for each button. > > > > > > Larry > > > > > > On 10/17/07, Sunburned Surveyor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > Paul, > > > > > > > > Your points are well taken. > > > > > > > > I took a pretty close look at JavaHelp. If you are a fan of HTML help > > > > it is the way to go. I decided against using Java help because I > > > > wanted a way to cleanly separate text from images. If I was to use a > > > > help documentation system that didn't use PDF, I would create a simple > > > > GUI that could display simple text and images in a logically separated > > > > way. > > > > > > > > I suppose you could use HTML if you didn't care about layout for > > > > printing, and you could put all images in separate HTML pages... > > > > > > > > I might be open to that idea. In this case I would be open to using > > > > Java Help. The only thing I don't like about this approach is that > > > > HTML really stinks for printing. So if we wanted good "printable" use > > > > documentation we would end up using a word processor or program like > > > > Scribus anyways. > > > > > > > > An alternative would be something that could produce HTML and PDF from > > > > plain text. I think DocBook does this, but every time I think about > > > > using it I shy away because of the learning curve. > > > > > > > > I'd like us to continue this dicussion. If we can figure out a > > > > compromise that works for most of us I'll scrap the PDF help idea. > > > > > > > > So, does anyone have a FOSS solution that we could use to > > > > automatically produce PDF and HTML PDF documentation from the same > > > > plain text source? > > > > > > > > We could throw the HTML into JavaHelp and make the PDF available for > > > > download to those that want a copy of the docs they can print. > > > > > > > > I'm open for suggestions. > > > > > > > > The Sunburned Surveyor > > > > > > > > On 10/17/07, Paul Austin <[EMAIL PROTECTED] > wrote: > > > > > Landon, > > > > > > > > > > On the P.S.S. Documentation that is larger because of quality > > > > > descriptions and illustrations is a good think. Larger because of > file > > > > > format size is not so good. > > > > > > > > > > Another thing is responsiveness, on my Linux box it takes forever to > > > > > launch a PDF viewer, an embedded swing HTML viewer however is really > > > > > fast. The other thing we should look at is the Java Help system to > see > > > > > if it meets out needs without inventing things ourselves. > > > > > > > > > > Paul > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sunburned Surveyor wrote: > > > > > > Paul brings up a good point. > > > > > > > > > > > > The only thing I don't like about HTML is that your options for > > > > > > controlling layout are limited. I think it also presents some > > > > > > challeneges in the separation of text and images, which I think is > > > > > > important for translation. Printing HTML docs can be tricky too. > > > > > > > > > > > > I've done work on a simple help viewer. It basically does what > Larry > > > > > > talks about, but also includes support for images. I could use it > > > > > > instead. But that would take a week or two of work...I'll have to > chew > > > > > > on it. > > > > > > > > > > > > You could probably look at the issue this way: > > > > > > > > > > > > Disadvantages of PDF help documentation: > > > > > > - Size of files. > > > > > > - External Viewer Needed > > > > > > > > > > > > Advantages of PDF help documentation: > > > > > > - Exact control over document layout. > > > > > > - Easy hard copy printing. > > > > > > - Access to documentation from outside the application. > > > > > > - Common document format. > > > > > > > > > > > > I think for something like a Plug-In I would include the PDF files > in > > > > > > the download. For something like a user or developer manual I > would > > > > > > package the PDF as a separate download. > > > > > > > > > > > > I guess I'm just a fan of PDF. :] It must be the graphic artist in > me. > > > > > > Still, this discussion is good, as I hadn't considered the size > issue. > > > > > > > > > > > > If someone is willing to develop an alternative help system that > will > > > > > > be supported in OpenJUMP, I will strive to make my plug-in help > docs > > > > > > conform. > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks. > > > > > > > > > > > > The Sunburned Surveyor > > > > > > > > > > > > P.S. - Larry: On my Linux system the PDF viewer is FOSS. > > > > > > P.S.S. - Paul: In my perspective PDF documentation that is larger > than > > > > > > the actual code is a sign of a well documented program, which most > > > > > > FOSS is not. I think there are several popular FOSS programs where > the > > > > > > help docs are larger than the code base. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 10/17/07, Paul Austin <[EMAIL PROTECTED] > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > >> And if you need to have some pretty formatting or images use > HTML. > > > > > >> > > > > > >> On another perspective on the issue. HTML is a fairly low > overhead way > > > > > >> to encode text. PDF files on the other hand have a lot of > overhead. > > > > > >> > > > > > >> If we look at this one page PDF it takes up 164KB where as a HTML > > > > > >> document with image would probably be 5kb. > > > > > >> > > > > > >> If we have 1000 functions in OpenJUMP with 1 page of help the PDF > files > > > > > >> would be around a 164MB download as opposed to about 2MB with > HTML (my > > > > > >> math is correct the image 3KB is shared across all the pages in > the HTML > > > > > >> with only 2KB of text that differs). > > > > > >> > > > > > >> Just another way to think about it. Your help files should not be > bigger > > > > > >> in size than the code! > > > > > >> > > > > > >> Paul > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> Larry Becker wrote: > > > > > >> > > > > > >>> PDF is just a non-standard way to do help. All you have is > some > > > > > >>> text. You should just pop up a window with a text component and > > > > > >>> display it. Don't make me open another (non-free) application > to view > > > > > >>> your help. > > > > > >>> > > > > > >>> Larry > > > > > >>> > > > > > >>> > > > > > >>> > > > > > >> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > >> This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. > > > > > >> Still grepping through log files to find problems? Stop. > > > > > >> Now Search log events and configuration files using AJAX and a > browser. > > > > > >> Download your FREE copy of Splunk now >> http://get.splunk.com/ > > > > > >> _______________________________________________ > > > > > >> Jump-pilot-devel mailing list > > > > > >> Jump-pilot-devel@lists.sourceforge.net > > > > > >> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jump-pilot-devel > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > > This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. > > > > > > Still grepping through log files to find problems? Stop. > > > > > > Now Search log events and configuration files using AJAX and a > browser. > > > > > > Download your FREE copy of Splunk now >> http://get.splunk.com/ > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > Jump-pilot-devel mailing list > > > > > > Jump-pilot-devel@lists.sourceforge.net > > > > > > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jump-pilot-devel > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. > > > > > Still grepping through log files to find problems? Stop. > > > > > Now Search log events and configuration files using AJAX and a > browser. > > > > > Download your FREE copy of Splunk now >> http://get.splunk.com/ > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > Jump-pilot-devel mailing list > > > > > Jump-pilot-devel@lists.sourceforge.net > > > > > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jump-pilot-devel > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. > > > > Still grepping through log files to find problems? 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