On Tue, Feb 21, 2017 at 01:26:17PM -0500, Jon Evans wrote: > Yeah, this is going to be a problem any time there is a situation where > KiCad does it differently than "the standard", but has been doing it that > way forever. No easy fix that pleases both the old users and the new > users. Other open source software has had this problem too (GIMP, etc)
A part of me really wants to fork KiCad, spend a year or so removing ALL these silly KiCadisms that "users will howl about", and release it as a new de-crustified project with the understanding that everything will be different because everything was stupid before. I bet *checks sofa* $3.24 that users would flock to it. Sadly, that part of me lives in a fantasy world where days have 48 hours and I get paid megabucks to sit on my butt. > > My own thoughts on the matter are that I want to never have to change layer > using the layer picker, and always have it hidden. Based on the behavior > of other tools I have used, I think that it is possible to greatly reduce > the need to manually change layers, and especially to do so with the mouse > rather than a hotkey. > > -Jon > > On Tue, Feb 21, 2017 at 1:18 PM, Wayne Stambaugh <[email protected]> > wrote: > > > I can just hear users howling already when they left click the color > > swatch thinking that they are selecting the layer and then have to > > dismiss the color select dialog to continue working. If we cannot come > > up with a better solution, it may be best to leave sleeping dogs lie. I > > wonder how many of the 75% of voters in the poll would response to > > having to dismiss the color selection dialog every time they > > inadvertently left clicked the color button? This may be a case of > > ignorance being bliss. > > > > On 2/21/2017 12:54 PM, Jon Evans wrote: > > > FWIW, this is what my expecations were as a new user when I started with > > > KiCad (for what would happen with a single left-click) based on how > > > things work in other applications with layer managers I have used (ECAD, > > > graphics, etc): > > > > > > http://i.imgur.com/Euh2Gjwl.png > > > > > > -Jon > > > > > > On Tue, Feb 21, 2017 at 12:04 PM, Chris Pavlina <[email protected] > > > <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: > > > > > > By the way. > > > > > > https://forum.kicad.info/t/developer-feedback-poll-layer- > > manager/5421 <https://forum.kicad.info/t/developer-feedback-poll-layer- > > manager/5421> > > > > > > Feel free to add your own responses. The results look pretty > > conclusive > > > right now ;) > > > > > > On Tue, Feb 21, 2017 at 11:40:05AM -0500, Chris Pavlina wrote: > > > > Sent to wrong recipient. > > > > > > > > On Tue, Feb 21, 2017 at 11:38:43AM -0500, Chris Pavlina wrote: > > > > > On Tue, Feb 21, 2017 at 05:24:14PM +0100, jp charras wrote: > > > > > > Le 21/02/2017 à 16:07, Chris Pavlina a écrit : > > > > > > > On Tue, Feb 21, 2017 at 09:35:34AM -0500, Wayne Stambaugh > > wrote: > > > > > > >> My only issue with this change is that the tooltip letting > > > the user know > > > > > > >> that a left button double click or a middle button click > > > would allow > > > > > > >> them to change the color is gone. Other than that, it > > > looks great. I > > > > > > >> like the use of Bind instead of Connect. Bind has a much > > > cleaner > > > > > > >> interface than Connect and according to the wx folks is the > > > proper way > > > > > > >> to handle events. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The tooltip is useless, nobody is going to hover over them > > > for long > > > > > > > enough to see it. I was just talking to someone this morning > > > who never > > > > > > > found the tooltip because he was too busy clicking on the > > > buttons to > > > > > > > make them work. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Every other color well in every other application opens its > > > selection > > > > > > > dialog with a single left click. Why can't ours? > > > > > > > > > > > > First you have to decide if the main purpose is to select the > > > active layer or to change the color layer. > > > > > > The answer will give also the answer to "Why can't ours". > > > > > > > > > > > > For me the answer is not obvious, but my opinion is: > > > > > > the primary purpose of the layer manager is to select the > > > working layer. > > > > > > Therefore the single left click should change the layer, > > > whatever you are clicking. > > > > > > > > > > > > If the primary purpose of the layer manager is to select the > > > color, then a single left click should > > > > > > open the color dialog. > > > > > > > > > > This isn't "the layer manager", it's a color well IN the layer > > > manager. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If the single left click opens the dialog, be sure many times, > > > when clicking inside the layer > > > > > > manager, you will open the dialog, instead of changing the > > > active layer, especially if you are too > > > > > > busy clicking on the window to verify the exact position of > > > the mouse. > > > > > > (It frequently happened to me when the single click was > > > opening the dialog) > > > > > > > > > > > > A wise decision is never obvious. > > > > > > (A reason like "other applications do that" is not necessary a > > > good reason. > > > > > > Each application has its constraints and its compromises) > > > > > > > > > > YES IT IS. Consistency is the single most important way to make > > an > > > > > interface understandable. A box containing a color is a color > > > well, and > > > > > color wells behave the exact same way in everything that isn't > > > kicad. > > > > > > > > > > Next you'll tell me "File->Open opening a file in other > > > applications is > > > > > not a good reason it shouldn't display a photo of a llama in > > KiCad". > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> On 2/21/2017 8:04 AM, John Beard wrote: > > > > > > >>> Hi, > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > >>> These patches fix the layer/render widget swatches in > > > Linux under new > > > > > > >>> GTK+ toolkits. Fix for: > > > https://bugs.launchpad.net/kicad/+bug/1605411 > > > <https://bugs.launchpad.net/kicad/+bug/1605411> > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > >>> The patches remove the "button" nature of the swatches, > > > since they > > > > > > >>> weren't actually actuated by a single click, so the button > > > affordance > > > > > > >>> was misleading anyway. Also on OSX, the button was > > > invisible, so it > > > > > > >>> just looked like a flat swatch anyway. > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > >>> * Linux as it was: > > > > > > >>> > > > https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BxVhl5qZbpYoZlZPeXV1Q0ttT2s/view > > > <https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BxVhl5qZbpYoZlZPeXV1Q0ttT2s/view> > > > > > > >>> * OSX as it was: > > > > > > >>> > > > https://launchpadlibrarian.net/274428737/Screen%20Shot% > > 202016-07-22%20at%2019.40.14.png > > > <https://launchpadlibrarian.net/274428737/Screen%20Shot% > > 202016-07-22%20at%2019.40.14.png> > > > > > > >>> * Linux after this patch: see attachment > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > >>> This is followed by a refactor to pull the swatch logic > > > out of the > > > > > > >>> layer widget into common, where it can be used by other > > > clients, for > > > > > > >>> example the eeschema display color dialog, if wanted. > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > >>> Patch #3 is a simple replacement of old WX Connect with > > > Bind for > > > > > > >>> consistency in that file. > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > >>> Cheers, > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > >>> John > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > >>> _______________________________________________ > > > > > > >>> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers > > > <https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers> > > > > > > >>> Post to : [email protected] > > > <mailto:[email protected]> > > > > > > >>> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers > > > <https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers> > > > > > > >>> More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp > > > <https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp> > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> _______________________________________________ > > > > > > >> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers > > > <https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers> > > > > > > >> Post to : [email protected] > > > <mailto:[email protected]> > > > > > > >> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers > > > <https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers> > > > > > > >> More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp > > > <https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > > Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers > > > <https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers> > > > > > > > Post to : [email protected] > > > <mailto:[email protected]> > > > > > > > Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers > > > <https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers> > > > > > > > More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp > > > <https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > Jean-Pierre CHARRAS > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers > > > <https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers> > > > > > > Post to : [email protected] > > > <mailto:[email protected]> > > > > > > Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers > > > <https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers> > > > > > > More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp > > > <https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp> > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers > > > <https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers> > > > Post to : [email protected] > > > <mailto:[email protected]> > > > Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers > > > <https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers> > > > More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp > > > <https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers > > > Post to : [email protected] > > > Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers > > > More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers > > Post to : [email protected] > > Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers > > More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp > > _______________________________________________ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers Post to : [email protected] Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
