It's hell getting old! :) On 2/21/2017 6:43 PM, Simon Wells wrote: > haha your advanced life experience must be getting to you.... you even > commented on it when it was last bought up on the list > https://lists.launchpad.net/kicad-developers/msg23387.html > > On 22 February 2017 at 12:39, Wayne Stambaugh <[email protected]> wrote: >> Why don't I remember that? It must not have been that way for very >> long. In any event, I'm actually fine with changing it to a single left >> click. We could always undo it if user's absolutely hate it. >> >> On 2/21/2017 1:43 PM, Simon Wells wrote: >>> there was a time where it was single click changes colour and there >>> were no complaints that i saw. JP changed it without consultation or >>> comment on the list >>> >>> On 22 February 2017 at 07:30, Chris Pavlina <[email protected]> wrote: >>>> On Tue, Feb 21, 2017 at 01:26:17PM -0500, Jon Evans wrote: >>>>> Yeah, this is going to be a problem any time there is a situation where >>>>> KiCad does it differently than "the standard", but has been doing it that >>>>> way forever. No easy fix that pleases both the old users and the new >>>>> users. Other open source software has had this problem too (GIMP, etc) >>>> >>>> A part of me really wants to fork KiCad, spend a year or so removing ALL >>>> these silly KiCadisms that "users will howl about", and release it as a >>>> new de-crustified project with the understanding that everything will be >>>> different because everything was stupid before. I bet *checks sofa* >>>> $3.24 that users would flock to it. >>>> >>>> Sadly, that part of me lives in a fantasy world where days have 48 hours >>>> and I get paid megabucks to sit on my butt. >>>> >>>>> >>>>> My own thoughts on the matter are that I want to never have to change >>>>> layer >>>>> using the layer picker, and always have it hidden. Based on the behavior >>>>> of other tools I have used, I think that it is possible to greatly reduce >>>>> the need to manually change layers, and especially to do so with the mouse >>>>> rather than a hotkey. >>>>> >>>>> -Jon >>>>> >>>>> On Tue, Feb 21, 2017 at 1:18 PM, Wayne Stambaugh <[email protected]> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> I can just hear users howling already when they left click the color >>>>>> swatch thinking that they are selecting the layer and then have to >>>>>> dismiss the color select dialog to continue working. If we cannot come >>>>>> up with a better solution, it may be best to leave sleeping dogs lie. I >>>>>> wonder how many of the 75% of voters in the poll would response to >>>>>> having to dismiss the color selection dialog every time they >>>>>> inadvertently left clicked the color button? This may be a case of >>>>>> ignorance being bliss. >>>>>> >>>>>> On 2/21/2017 12:54 PM, Jon Evans wrote: >>>>>>> FWIW, this is what my expecations were as a new user when I started with >>>>>>> KiCad (for what would happen with a single left-click) based on how >>>>>>> things work in other applications with layer managers I have used (ECAD, >>>>>>> graphics, etc): >>>>>>> >>>>>>> http://i.imgur.com/Euh2Gjwl.png >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -Jon >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Tue, Feb 21, 2017 at 12:04 PM, Chris Pavlina <[email protected] >>>>>>> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> By the way. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> https://forum.kicad.info/t/developer-feedback-poll-layer- >>>>>> manager/5421 <https://forum.kicad.info/t/developer-feedback-poll-layer- >>>>>> manager/5421> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Feel free to add your own responses. The results look pretty >>>>>> conclusive >>>>>>> right now ;) >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Tue, Feb 21, 2017 at 11:40:05AM -0500, Chris Pavlina wrote: >>>>>>> > Sent to wrong recipient. >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > On Tue, Feb 21, 2017 at 11:38:43AM -0500, Chris Pavlina wrote: >>>>>>> > > On Tue, Feb 21, 2017 at 05:24:14PM +0100, jp charras wrote: >>>>>>> > > > Le 21/02/2017 à 16:07, Chris Pavlina a écrit : >>>>>>> > > > > On Tue, Feb 21, 2017 at 09:35:34AM -0500, Wayne Stambaugh >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> > > > >> My only issue with this change is that the tooltip letting >>>>>>> the user know >>>>>>> > > > >> that a left button double click or a middle button click >>>>>>> would allow >>>>>>> > > > >> them to change the color is gone. Other than that, it >>>>>>> looks great. I >>>>>>> > > > >> like the use of Bind instead of Connect. Bind has a much >>>>>>> cleaner >>>>>>> > > > >> interface than Connect and according to the wx folks is the >>>>>>> proper way >>>>>>> > > > >> to handle events. >>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > The tooltip is useless, nobody is going to hover over them >>>>>>> for long >>>>>>> > > > > enough to see it. I was just talking to someone this morning >>>>>>> who never >>>>>>> > > > > found the tooltip because he was too busy clicking on the >>>>>>> buttons to >>>>>>> > > > > make them work. >>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > Every other color well in every other application opens its >>>>>>> selection >>>>>>> > > > > dialog with a single left click. Why can't ours? >>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>> > > > First you have to decide if the main purpose is to select the >>>>>>> active layer or to change the color layer. >>>>>>> > > > The answer will give also the answer to "Why can't ours". >>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>> > > > For me the answer is not obvious, but my opinion is: >>>>>>> > > > the primary purpose of the layer manager is to select the >>>>>>> working layer. >>>>>>> > > > Therefore the single left click should change the layer, >>>>>>> whatever you are clicking. >>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>> > > > If the primary purpose of the layer manager is to select the >>>>>>> color, then a single left click should >>>>>>> > > > open the color dialog. >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> > > This isn't "the layer manager", it's a color well IN the layer >>>>>>> manager. >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>> > > > If the single left click opens the dialog, be sure many times, >>>>>>> when clicking inside the layer >>>>>>> > > > manager, you will open the dialog, instead of changing the >>>>>>> active layer, especially if you are too >>>>>>> > > > busy clicking on the window to verify the exact position of >>>>>>> the mouse. >>>>>>> > > > (It frequently happened to me when the single click was >>>>>>> opening the dialog) >>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>> > > > A wise decision is never obvious. >>>>>>> > > > (A reason like "other applications do that" is not necessary a >>>>>>> good reason. >>>>>>> > > > Each application has its constraints and its compromises) >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> > > YES IT IS. Consistency is the single most important way to make >>>>>> an >>>>>>> > > interface understandable. A box containing a color is a color >>>>>>> well, and >>>>>>> > > color wells behave the exact same way in everything that isn't >>>>>>> kicad. >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> > > Next you'll tell me "File->Open opening a file in other >>>>>>> applications is >>>>>>> > > not a good reason it shouldn't display a photo of a llama in >>>>>> KiCad". >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>> > > > >> On 2/21/2017 8:04 AM, John Beard wrote: >>>>>>> > > > >>> Hi, >>>>>>> > > > >>> >>>>>>> > > > >>> These patches fix the layer/render widget swatches in >>>>>>> Linux under new >>>>>>> > > > >>> GTK+ toolkits. Fix for: >>>>>>> https://bugs.launchpad.net/kicad/+bug/1605411 >>>>>>> <https://bugs.launchpad.net/kicad/+bug/1605411> >>>>>>> > > > >>> >>>>>>> > > > >>> The patches remove the "button" nature of the swatches, >>>>>>> since they >>>>>>> > > > >>> weren't actually actuated by a single click, so the button >>>>>>> affordance >>>>>>> > > > >>> was misleading anyway. Also on OSX, the button was >>>>>>> invisible, so it >>>>>>> > > > >>> just looked like a flat swatch anyway. >>>>>>> > > > >>> >>>>>>> > > > >>> * Linux as it was: >>>>>>> > > > >>> >>>>>>> https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BxVhl5qZbpYoZlZPeXV1Q0ttT2s/view >>>>>>> <https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BxVhl5qZbpYoZlZPeXV1Q0ttT2s/view> >>>>>>> > > > >>> * OSX as it was: >>>>>>> > > > >>> >>>>>>> https://launchpadlibrarian.net/274428737/Screen%20Shot% >>>>>> 202016-07-22%20at%2019.40.14.png >>>>>>> <https://launchpadlibrarian.net/274428737/Screen%20Shot% >>>>>> 202016-07-22%20at%2019.40.14.png> >>>>>>> > > > >>> * Linux after this patch: see attachment >>>>>>> > > > >>> >>>>>>> > > > >>> This is followed by a refactor to pull the swatch logic >>>>>>> out of the >>>>>>> > > > >>> layer widget into common, where it can be used by other >>>>>>> clients, for >>>>>>> > > > >>> example the eeschema display color dialog, if wanted. >>>>>>> > > > >>> >>>>>>> > > > >>> Patch #3 is a simple replacement of old WX Connect with >>>>>>> Bind for >>>>>>> > > > >>> consistency in that file. >>>>>>> > > > >>> >>>>>>> > > > >>> Cheers, >>>>>>> > > > >>> >>>>>>> > > > >>> John >>>>>>> > > > >>> >>>>>>> > > > >>> >>>>>>> > > > >>> >>>>>>> > > > >>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> > > > >>> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers >>>>>>> <https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers> >>>>>>> > > > >>> Post to : [email protected] >>>>>>> <mailto:[email protected]> >>>>>>> > > > >>> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers >>>>>>> <https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers> >>>>>>> > > > >>> More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp >>>>>>> <https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp> >>>>>>> > > > >>> >>>>>>> > > > >> >>>>>>> > > > >> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> > > > >> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers >>>>>>> <https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers> >>>>>>> > > > >> Post to : [email protected] >>>>>>> <mailto:[email protected]> >>>>>>> > > > >> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers >>>>>>> <https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers> >>>>>>> > > > >> More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp >>>>>>> <https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp> >>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> > > > > Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers >>>>>>> <https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers> >>>>>>> > > > > Post to : [email protected] >>>>>>> <mailto:[email protected]> >>>>>>> > > > > Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers >>>>>>> <https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers> >>>>>>> > > > > More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp >>>>>>> <https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp> >>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>> > > > -- >>>>>>> > > > Jean-Pierre CHARRAS >>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>> > > > _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> > > > Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers >>>>>>> <https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers> >>>>>>> > > > Post to : [email protected] >>>>>>> <mailto:[email protected]> >>>>>>> > > > Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers >>>>>>> <https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers> >>>>>>> > > > More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp >>>>>>> <https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers >>>>>>> <https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers> >>>>>>> Post to : [email protected] >>>>>>> <mailto:[email protected]> >>>>>>> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers >>>>>>> <https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers> >>>>>>> More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp >>>>>>> <https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers >>>>>>> Post to : [email protected] >>>>>>> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers >>>>>>> More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers >>>>>> Post to : [email protected] >>>>>> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers >>>>>> More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp >>>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers >>>> Post to : [email protected] >>>> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers >>>> More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers >>> Post to : [email protected] >>> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers >>> More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers >> Post to : [email protected] >> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers >> More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
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