Hi Robert,
Thanks for your long answer. The libs are not stopping me for professional use, just wasting time to do my own or modify the existing ones. Ive spent all the day yesterday on that and Ive still to spend a lot of time to change all the components text and silkscreen size to get something consistent ! The minimum is to get all the components with the same visual aspect from the simple R to the most complex connector or chip. The lib management is hard to handle and that also requires a lot of time to get nice libs. Ive to admit that everything can be done thanks to several workarounds, but the amount of time needed to get a correct result is simply amazing. What is really a problem with Kicad for me is the ability to add some mechanical schematics from DXF or 3D manufacturer models. My current project on Kicad is the first one for a professional use and the PCB must fit in a ALUSTYLE Bopla box. The mechanical integration is sensitive as there is no much place to fit everything and some components like the LCD or connectors must be accurately positioned (tolerance about 0.1mm). Ive drawn the box on the drawing layer but this is really not easy as Kicad is not mechanics drawing oriented. I could approach something but Im not happy with the accuracy of the design. I have to admit that if you spend a lot of time and have many iterations you can approach an acceptable result. Im the first guy to promote Kicad. Last Month Ive even given a training for some hams friends, because I really think this is a nice CAD tool for the one who hasnt too much exigencies. But the different limitations Im facing now just make me wasting really a lot of time. Ive started this PCB 5 days ago and Ive still not drawn a track ! Just created components and mechanics Its a little bit discouraging. I would be happy to publish my libs once completed but I dont believe that is the good method. One more lib with some components inside lack of consistency. However it may help saving time for some people and I will post it soon. In order to get something valuable for lib sharing, I think a moderator should publish the rules for creating components and libs, then receive the libs from everybody, check it and then include the component in the core libs. Thus that would bring component consistency, limited libs number and sorted libs That would be great.. I now this is a lot of work. A friend of mine is using Altium Designer and is happy with it. I decided to look at its features and watched the videos on their website : http://videos.altium.com/trainingcenter/od_player.html Ive been really impressed by the nice editing features and the 2D/3D mechanics integration that I decided to download the demo version from their website. My first overall impression is that its much more complex than Kicad of course and for someone who just need to design few PCB per year that might not be interesting to spend time for training. However, the edit functions for schematics and PCB are very very powerful, helping saving a lot of time (easy to reuse part of SCH or PCB, tracks can be moved without redrawing, and so on ) The versions costs 1000 or 4000$ but I havent yet checked the differences between both. 1K$ may be acceptable for me. Im going to spend a while to see if Altium could be fast to learn. If so and if it really bring to me the ability to manage the mechanics part easily I may swith. Im using Kicad since more than one year and made few PCB. But until now, none of them were to be industrialized so these limitations where Im spending time were not important. My conclusion is that drawing PCB is not my added value as a designer and I need to get something efficient which really give me the opportunity to do the job with the minimum spent time. Best Stephane De : kicad-users@yahoogroups.com [mailto:kicad-us...@yahoogroups.com] De la part de Robert Envoyé : vendredi 22 janvier 2010 10:54 À : kicad-users@yahoogroups.com Objet : Re: [kicad-users] libs silkscreens unusable Stephane, I noticed this problem long ago. I use kicad professionally, but I cannot see how *anyone* could use these footprints as they are except by simply producing boards without a silk screen. However, I don't understand why you find this such a show-stopper. When I find such a footprint I simply save it in my own library, modify the silk screen, and carry on. It takes a few seconds, and I usually use the opportunity to set text visibility and size to my own personal preferences. And therein lies the rub; whoever creates the library, no matter how careful they are they will likely have different requirements from you, so you end up having to edit the supplied footprints anyway. What I personally find a big show-stopper in commercial PCB packages is the appalling UI. This generally seems to originate from a Unix command line app that was ported to a DOS graphical interface and then the resulting irregularly octagonal peg has been rammed into a Windows round hole (the authors of the last such package I used were so proud of this "feature" they made it part of their marketing). After a day of using such a package I'm generally absolutely furious, which does nothing for the quality of my work. I'm producing boards far more professionally with kicad than I ever did with a commercial product, and that is almost entirely down to the kicad UI. It isn't perfect, but at least it largely follows current practice. Footprints I can fix easily; fixing the UI is rather more difficult. Since you're clearly upset by the existing library, have you considered donating your own library to the kicad project? Regards, Robert. Stephrac74 wrote: > Ive got these libs thanks. They are converted from an other CAD software (Eagle I guess). You will notice that these libs cant be viewed or managed by the Lib management tools which are in portugese or so (Mod2mod, Lib2lib, ) for some reason. > > > > To illustrates what I was saying, on the www.kicadlib.org, most of the SMD parts which can be seen from this link have the issue. For instance : > > http://www.kicadlib.org/modules/d2pak.png > > http://www.kicadlib.org/modules/tssoic28.png > > http://www.kicadlib.org/modules/vqfp80.png > > http://www.kicadlib.org/modules/3M_Serie_2500_SMD.PNG > > > > You see the silkscreen on pads ! no way to industrialize a PCB from this. It must be modified > > > > Same remark on some libs Im using from <http://library.oshec.org/> http://library.oshec.org/ like the vishay 153 caps, diods, transistors or power transistors > > > > this one is correct : http://www.kicadlib.org/modules/lm4674_llp_sqa16a.png > > > > After a deeper look at these additional libs, I think most of the SMD part numbers have the issue L > > > > So what Im doing now is to pick up the component I need from these libs, and then duplicate it into a own lib and modify it ! > > Ive spent all the day doing that and Ive not finished ! This is a nightmare ;-) > > > > For this project I guess Im going to continue but for new projects I may switch to another CAD system. Altium Designer looks good and is not so expensive. Its a pity as I like Kicad and the job done for the development is fantastic, but these 2% details makes me wasting my time so my money > > > > Best > > Stephane > > > > > > > > De : kicad-users@yahoogroups.com <mailto:kicad-users%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:kicad-users@yahoogroups.com <mailto:kicad-users%40yahoogroups.com> ] De la part de Andy Eskelson > Envoyé : jeudi 21 janvier 2010 17:40 > À : kicad-users@yahoogroups.com <mailto:kicad-users%40yahoogroups.com> > Objet : Re: [kicad-users] libs silkscreens unusable > > > > > > I understand, there is not really much that can be done about that apart > from a reedit. > > The only thing I can suggest is to have a look at some other libs. > > If you have a look here: > > http://library.oshec.org/ > > There are 1000's of converted libs and mods, and looking at some of them > the outlines do keep clear of the pads, (at least on the sides needed for > solder on the dpacks I looked at as examples.) > > At the top of the page is a link to download the whole lot, about a 12Mb > download. > > That might save you a bit of time. > > The above site is linked via > > http://www.kicadlib.org/ > > then via > > http://per.launay.free.fr/kicad/kicad_php/composant.php > > Both the kicadlib and Pierre Launay's sites are worth bookmarking > > Andy > > On Thu, 21 Jan 2010 14:18:25 +0100 > "Stephrac74" <stephra...@wanadoo.fr <mailto:stephrac74%40wanadoo.fr> <mailto:stephrac74%40wanadoo.fr> > wrote: > >> Hi Andy, >> >> >> >> In fact this option only enables you to add or not the pads footprint on the silkscreen. >> >> >> >> The problem is different. The components silkscreens in libs are drawn on pads making soldering impossible. I do not see other option rather than making the modification on each concerned component. >> >> This is usually the problem when libs are made by contributors and not checked. The problem occurs for instance for Vishay electrolytic caps, SMD crystals, sot223, DPACK, etc >> >> >> >> Ive started 5 hours ago to modify all the components Im using on this board and once modified, creating my own libs. In the same time I can arrange libs in a better way but the work is huge and Ive not really the time to do that for that project but no way >> >> >> >> Stephane >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> De : kicad-users@yahoogroups.com <mailto:kicad-users%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:kicad-users%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:kicad-users@yahoogroups.com <mailto:kicad-users%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:kicad-users%40yahoogroups.com> ] De la part de Andy Eskelson >> Envoyé : jeudi 21 janvier 2010 12:30 >> À : kicad-users@yahoogroups.com <mailto:kicad-users%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:kicad-users%40yahoogroups.com> >> Objet : Re: [kicad-users] libs silkscreens unusable >> >> >> >> >> >> Have you unticked the "print pads on silkscreen" option? ( plot menu >> lower left hand corner) >> >> Andy >> >> On Thu, 21 Jan 2010 11:03:07 +0100 >> "Stephrac74" <stephra...@wanadoo.fr <mailto:stephrac74%40wanadoo.fr> <mailto:stephrac74%40wanadoo.fr> <mailto:stephrac74%40wanadoo.fr> > wrote: >> >>> Hi group, >>> >>> >>> >>> Ive noticed that most of the library components have unusable silkscreens. >>> Most of the time, the lib silkscreen shows the component itself with pads >>> and so on instead of a simple square or so, and the silkscreen often covers >>> the pads which is amazing ! >>> >>> >>> >>> This is not usable for PCB industrialization. Ive decided to dont use >>> anymore the Kicad libs and to redesign all my needed components ! This is a >>> major issue according to me and a major waste of time I have no time >>> anymore to change the software. >>> >>> >>> >>> Regarding the different limitations Im facing for a professional use, Im >>> starting having regrets to have chosen Kicad L This is a fantastic >>> software, and free, but the 2% of missing details makes this software not >>> usable for professional use according to me and requires a lot more time >>> even for an amateur use than an other software. >>> >>> >>> >>> Hoping it will be improved, but last release is already 1 year ago and the >>> wish list is so long that I have not added my comments. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Best >>> >>> Stephane >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------- >> Orange vous informe que cet e-mail a été contrôlé par l'anti-virus mail. >> Aucun virus connu à ce jour par nos services n'a été détecté. >> >> >> > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------- > Orange vous informe que cet e-mail a été contrôlé par l'anti-virus mail. > Aucun virus connu à ce jour par nos services n'a été détecté. > > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------- > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 9.0.730 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2636 - Release Date: 01/21/10 07:34:00 > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----------- Orange vous informe que cet e-mail a été contrôlé par l'anti-virus mail. 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