Against better judgement, I feel I must step in on a few points.
On Jun 7, 2005, at 2:05 PM, boblq wrote:
On Tuesday 07 June 2005 11:59 am, Andrew Lentvorski wrote:I don't go in with the attitude that they are my inferiors. But I alsodon't go in with the attitude that they are superior because they are "happier".You don't have a clue do you? Ever wonder why they are happy?
How does it follow, that simply because Andrew decides not to presume that another people is superior/inferior simply based on happiness, that he doesn't have a clue?
How can you assume, as it seems implied here, that because what makes Andrew happy isn't what makes you happy, that Andrew's life is somehow "less" than yours?
There is a common affliction among all people which frequently gets described as "All the world is and/or should be as I see it." Well, hate to burst your bubble, but what works for you doesn't work for everybody. :)
I found that I learned as much from them as they did from me. What I learned from them was about those values of relationship and caring directly, rather than abstractly, for real people in real situations. That people matter more than objects. That who you are is defined by your relationships with other people not by the amount of money you make, nor your job, nor the house you live in or the car you drive. Not by your intellect but by your capacity for compassion. What I found was that people living with those values were happier on the whole than my intellectual friends many of whom had exaggerated opinions of themselves based upon minor academic and intellectual accomplishments.
Dude, you're preaching to the choir. Turn around and preach to the congregation, instead. :)
What seems insulting in your statements, however, is not what your saying, but rather that you imply you're the only one here that truly understands it. Surprise, but you're not. Surprise, but there are plenty of people here in the evil, sadistic US that actually _care_ about other people, and are happy in their lives not because they drive cars and own homes and have lots of things, but because they found people in their lives that they care about and care about them.
This is not a quality of people that you only find in the boonies.
In addition, *you* were the one who pointed out that their happiness stems from inward focus to the exclusion of outside influence.It stems from the community they live in and create, which is basically a small village, very poor by western standards, but relatively self sufficient, and where most people actually seem to like each other and live happy and meaningful lives.
However, that is not the only wellspring of true happiness in this world. All I'm asking is that you recognize that fact, and admit that it is possible to find happiness no matter where in the world you may be, if you find yourself with all your basic needs met and in the company of good people.
Furthermore, no small amount of violence and evil exists because people choose to be happy and ignorant. This country is a shining example ofthat.We agree, but there is ignorance and ignorance. Not all is the same.
I believe you are making a distinction here between willful ignorance and unintentional ignorance, and yes, they are different beasts.
Finally, sheep are quite happy right before they get slaughtered. Justbecause you ignore the world does not mean the world ignores you.So you don't think you are in that same boat? LOL. If you really think your education and awareness will shelter you from all of the worlds potential difficulties then you certainly have stepped outside the realm of history. Just look at what slaughters were _not_ avoided during the last century by well educated and well meaning people.
I'm not really sure what either of you meant by this bit. So, moving on...
We don't look down our "long intellectual noses" at them. Most of these people, in fact, labor out of the hope that their work benefits us all.But, neither do they pretend that the larger world does not exist.But you take a very condescending attitude to all kinds of people who do not share your background. I wonder why?
POT. KETTLE. BLACK. MOVE ON.
I'm glad your relatives think differently. Perhaps 100 years of technology bought on the backs of those who worked in the "Satanic mills" is rather important to their opinion.Not much. I suspect that my father-in-laws great grandfather was not a lot different. Nor was his life hugely different.
So, he has or uses no tools or implements yielded by the past 100 years or so of technological advancement? No clothing manufactured in plants? No clothing with zippers? Okay, okay, so those are _small_ differences in life. What about tools for the fields?
Just wondering.
If we choose simply to breed, be happy, and die--our existence is pointless. The goal is to *improve* life for us all.Total bullshit. Life has intrinsic meaning and is rarely pointless. The factthat you have your compulsions is simply not my problem. Who are you anyway to judge the value of the lives of others?
Likewise, who are you? You judge us (and Andrew, specifically, in this case) critically for the society we live in and then question who we are to do the same for you and yours? If you are going to lay criticisms on life in the western world, be prepared to accept the same for life in a "simpler" place. Allow me to repeat myself from ealier:
POT. KETTLE. BLACK. MOVE ON.
OK, you asked for it.
And the pissing contest is on. Bob made the bigger puddle, 'cause he had to walk up hill both ways to/from school in the snow with no shoes.
I appreciate your contribution but do not appreciate your attitude, which is both arrogant and elitist. I can make a distinction between the contribution, which I respect, and the attitude, which disgusts me, which is why I refer to such people as pigs. You do not seem to be able to make any such distinction.
And yet you're consistently arrogant in your own right, decrying our lives as horrible implementations of delusional dreams while your family has it right and you're a better person than all of us for it.
Likewise, your attitude towards us disgusts me. You counter generalizations with yet more generalizations, never once stopping to think that you've become, in essence, the mirror image of what you so despise: one who disdains all who disagree, simply because their world views are different from your own.
Gregory -- Gregory K. Ruiz-Ade <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> OpenPGP Key ID: EAF4844B keyserver: pgpkeys.mit.edu
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