Rick Carlson wrote:
William Eade wrote:
I find it amusing that some believe that Catholics are not Christians
- since they were the ONLY Christians from the early 300's until the
1500's that means that what they are calling Christianity is only a
mere 500 years old.
Ummm...
While I agree that the Catholic church (with a capital C) dates from
around 381 C.E. they were not the only Christians before or during
the time up to the 16th century when the Protestant Reformation in
Europe divided Christianity into the Catholic and Protestant Church.
Christianity ( non-Catholic) existed among the Jews. Jesus and his
original Apostles were all Jews. Gentiles were later accepted into the
Christian religion once Paul of Tarsus, also known as St. Paul, began
his travels to spread the word about Jesus. In Paul's Letter to the
Galatians it is told how Paul attended the Jerusalem Conference in 48
or 49 C.E. where a decision was made that gentiles would be allowed to
become Christians without becoming Jews first (i.e.. have a
circumcision, and follow the Jewish Laws).
Paul, being the one that defended the Gentile's right to be
Christians, became the apostle to the gentiles.
In 325 C.E. the First Council of Nicea signaled consolidation of
Christianity under an orthodoxy endorsed by Emperor Constantine.
Before that, in 313 the Edict of Milan legitimized Christianity
alongside other religions practiced in the Roman Empire. This did not
make other Christian groups outside his definition illegal.
In 380 Emperor Theodosius I made Christianity the Roman Empire's
official religion.
Before the capital of the Roman Empire was moved to Constantinople the
Christian Church was organized around Bishops who were the local
leaders of major cities of the Empire i.e. Rome, Alexandria, Antioch
and, later, Constantinople and Jerusalem. But there were other Bishops
of other major cities who did not feel they owed allegiance to the
Bishop of Rome. This conflict between those Bishops who saw the Bishop
of Rome to be the descendant of St. Peter and the other Bishops who
did not believe in an Apostolic Succession eventually resulted in the
schism between the Western Church and the Eastern Orthodox Church.
Both considered by their respective leaders and followers to be 'True
Christians'. The Eastern Orthodox Church along with the Greek
Orthodox Church still believe themselves to be authentic Christians,
but not Catholic.
Even between the early 300's and 1500's there were schisms between the
Catholic church and other churches which had theological and doctrinal
differences with Rome.
The first great rupture in the Church followed the Third Ecumenical
Council in 431 known as the Council of Ephesus. This involved
"Nestorian" theology. Those who refused to accept the Council's ruling
were largely Persian and are represented today by the Assyrian Church
of the East and related Churches. They are often called Ancient
Oriental Churches.
The next major break was after the Council of Chalcedon in 451. This
Council repudiated Eutychian Moinophysitism. This Council declared
that Christ, though one person, exhibited two natures "without
confusion, without change, without division, without separation" and
thus is both fully God and fully human.
The Alexandrian Church rejected the terms adopted by this Council, and
the Christian Churches that follow the tradition of non-acceptance of
the Council are referred to as Pre-Chalcedonian or Oriental Orthodox
Churches.
Longstanding doctrinal disputes, as well as conflicts between methods
of Church government, and the evolution of separate rites and
practices, precipitated a split in 1054 C.E. that divided the
Church, this time between a "West" and an "East". This is called the
East-West Schism.
England, France, the Holy Roman Empire, Scandinavia and Western Europe
in general were in the Western camp,
and Greece, Romania, Russia and many of the other Slavic lands,
Anatolia, and the Christians in Syria and Egypt who accepted the
Council of Chalcedon made up the Eastern camp.
Once again all of these folks thought of themselves as Christians, but
not Catholics.
And then of course there was the Protestant Reformation in the 16th
century...
> I think that the main reason that so many people are Christians is
that they are afraid
> of death, some with good reason considering their lives, and this
idea of instant
> redemption gives them hope of escaping punishment for their
transgressions.
No, I think it is more a case of laziness and greed rather than fear
of death and hope for redemption. Very few people speak of what Jesus
taught. Preachers quote the Old Testament when they want to compel
people through guilt or motivate them with fear. And you would think
Paul was their savior not Jesus. Most of the orthodoxy of Christianity
is based on the writings of Paul who never even met Jesus in his
lifetime.
Except on the Emmaus road, unless you refer to Jesus' mortal lifetime
when you say "his".
Before this point, excellent detail! It's been so long since I last
read about it that I had forgotten many of the details.
Due to the details in your post, I cannot believe that you don't really
know what the gospel is. I believe your cynicism has clouded either
your ability to see it or your willingness to admit it. Up to this
point, you accuracy seems quite good. But from this point on, your
accuracy turns to vapor. It is so far off that I don't feel it's even
possible to respond in an intelligent manner.
If you wanted to apply truth in advertising to it Christianity ought
to be called 'Paulianity ' or 'Churchianity'.
Historically Jesus and his message appealed to the disenfranchised of
his time. The gospels tell of Jesus ministering to the poor and sick
and the outcasts of society. The bible also speaks of Jesus as being a
descendant of David which would give him a claim to the throne. If he
intended to make a play for taking over Jerusalem he would need an
army and why not call on those who would have the most to gain by
overthrowing Herod and the Romans? Even today, the role of victim is
embraced as a fundamental mindset of Christianity even where they are
in the majority.
On the other hand, he tended to preach against the establishment who
chose to ignore him until he threw the moneychangers out of the
temple. Funny that, people seem inclined to put up with a lot until
you threaten their source of income. And the governments' cut in taxes.
So, he misjudges and gets himself killed. But the message lives on
i.e. You do not have to be educated or rich or well born. All you need
is faith. And of course after Christianity is legalized in the Roman
Empire and eventually becomes the dominant religious and political
power in the Western Roman Empire then it is good business to be a
Christian.
What defines a Christian? A general acceptance of the Gospels as
truth. Belief in Jesus as either the son of God, or as God, or as
both. And a willingness to support the Church through tithing. Which
is supposed to be voluntary but your standing in the community is
dependent upon how 'good' a Christian you are. In good old Anglo-Saxon
Christianity where success in business is a sure sign of favor with
God you don't dare not support the Church or you risk being thought of
by others as 'headed for hell'.
No matter what you say about Muslims you do have to respect their
requirement that everyone (true, it is mostly men) must read the
Koran and make one pilgrimage to their most holy city in their
lifetime. How many Christians have you met who have actually read
their Bible? Or who have made any attempt to understand the political,
economic, or social conditions of the times in which it is set?
Rick
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