Hello Kubuntu Devs, I'm a silent fan of Kubuntu but I agree that KMail can be omitted from a default install, as it jives with my practical experience out in the wild.
I've been installing Kubuntu on other people's machines since 2008. I've probably installed it on about 2 dozen machines and most of those are still working. These are installs for regular people, not super technical, and who simply want a clean, good-looking, intuitive, stress-free computing experience without someone trying to dig into their wallet. Everyone loves Kubuntu :) I've found that of all of those installs, only 3 people fit the profile of a KMail user; they're all technically savvy, needing an Outlook analogue. The rest use web mail and are happy with that. I personally use KMail all the time and love it, but I do have to agree that the Akonadi + MySQL backend is a non-trivial addition of system resources and complexity. Part of my custom install script is: sudo apt-get --yes remove "kdepim*" "kde-telepathy*" "telepathy-mission-control-*" So for most people in my experience, KMail should not be part of a default install. ~Michael On Fri, Sep 15, 2017 at 2:28 PM, Aaron Honeycutt <[email protected]> wrote: > If we just want to provide a basic email we can look at Trojita maybe? > Clay does bring an interesting point about that we're not Neon and should > not always aim for it. At least on what we provide to our users anyway. > > We're more of a install and done distro, so our users can get work done. > Now if it has a super easy way to install the PIM stuff like with QML and > apt under it? > > On Sep 15, 2017 5:20 PM, "Clay Weber" <[email protected]> wrote: > >> I'll vote in favor of KDEPIM >> >> Some Devil's advocate points that do not necessarily indicate my opinions >> on this topicg >> >> 1) An increase in resource usage, sure. But "hog" is open to >> interpretation. Just how much time are we saving during login? Is this >> still a thing? Don't we all just close our laptop lids and move on, and >> seldom reboot our PCs? >> >> 2) How are we determining this? >> >> 3) and 4) how much is saved, and is this overhead really an issue? >> >> 5) Kubuntu is not Neon. Neon showcases Plasma Desktop. Kubuntu is a well >> rounded easy to use distro that has extra software from the base Plasma >> provides. >> Note that "easy to use" is not the same thing as "newbie distro". >> >> 6) We could use this reasoning to remove a music player, irc client, >> office suite, and anything else and have nothing to differentiate us from >> KDE Neon. >> >> Also, as part of the Ubuntu family, shouldn't we have similar features or >> at least similar sets of installed software? What are our brethren using? >> >> Are there alternatives? How does just Kmail and the address book do, >> resource-wise? >> >> Lastly would this be a big slap in the face to the KDEPIM and greater KDE >> community? >> >> Just some random thoughts. >> >> >> >> Sent from my phone as I am at work for a while still. >> >> >> >> Clay Weber >> >> ------ Original message------ >> *From: *Clive Johnston >> *Date: *Fri, Sep 15, 2017 8:52 AM >> *To: *Kubuntu Developer Discussion;[email protected]; >> *Cc: * >> *Subject:*Drop PIM from the iso (default install) >> >> I know this is not going to be a popular subject for some, but I feel it >> does need debated. I would like to propose dropping PIM (all of it) from >> the iso (Kubuntu install medium) >> >> Here are my reasons for doing so: >> >> 1) PIM is a system resource hog - It starts services in the background >> which lead to longer waiting times to actually boot into your desktop. We >> tried to disable a lot of these services from auto-starting in Zesty and >> found that our default install footprint (memory and speed getting to >> desktop) was greatly reduced. >> >> 2) Majority of people don't actually use it - I am definitely in the >> minority of Kubuntu users who actu ally do use PIM features, and I love >> it. However, most users do not use it but are having it installed by >> default. This means that they will then have to keep it updated, unless >> they physically remove it. >> >> 3) iso size - PIM is a bit of a beast and is quite big size wise (when >> you consider all the dependencies). Dropping it off the iso would make the >> total iso size smaller and will also make installation a bit quicker as >> hundreds of extra packages won't have to be installed. >> >> 4) Upgrade overhead - Every-time a Kubuntu user does an upgrade, PIM will >> need to be upgraded too. For those on slower internet connections (like >> myself) this can be slow and frustrating. This is even more annoying if >> you don't even use the PIM suite! >> >> 5) KDE neon don't install it by default - The official KDE distribution >> don't install it by def ault. Probably due to the resource hogging as >> described above. >> >> 6) Any part of the suite can easily be installed via Discover, Muon or >> Konsole by those who actually do want it. In my opinion opting in is more >> in line with Freedoms of open source software rather than opting out (just >> personal opinion). >> >> I'm interested in other opinions and a debate on the issue, so please >> reply to this thread. >> >> Clive >> >> -- >> kubuntu-devel mailing list >> [email protected] >> Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailm >> an/listinfo/kubuntu-devel >> >> > -- > kubuntu-devel mailing list > [email protected] > Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/ > mailman/listinfo/kubuntu-devel > > -- ~Michael
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