On 25 August 2013 21:36, Aivaras Stepukonis <[email protected]> wrote:
> That would be heaven, Jan! > but you do realize, that you still need pootle ? Chances are that you miss one or more of the 73.000 strings we have in the system, so you still need a pootle server (or equivalent) to show you the strings you forgot. While I think the UI method is good, it has a number of drawbacks. - with pootle you can (and should) make a terminology file, that ensures you translate e.g. "cancel" identical in all strings. I made a test for fun, running trough our active languages, and in the best language "cancel" was only translated to 2 different words (worst had 8 different words). - Its hard to monitor progress (what did I already do, what have I left). rgds jan I. > > Best regards, > > Aivaras > > > 2013.08.25 22:29, janI rašė: > >> On 25 August 2013 21:09, Aivaras Stepukonis <[email protected]> >> wrote: >> >> I do understand that my suggestion may very well go against the grain of >>> current programming practices and quitely likely against the current >>> paradigm of organizing and running the "whole thing" (a multi-project >>> platform). >>> >>> A good technology may be quite inconvenient in its primary and even >>> intermediary stages of development but should always become convenient >>> once >>> it reaches the stage of maturity which is the ultimate criterion for its >>> goodness and also the main ethical reason of making the human suffering >>> caused by its primary and intermediary imperfections meaningful. >>> >>> No matter how fast Pootle will run, no matter how may "mediating >>> services" >>> there will arise, some parts of translating AOO (i.e. discrete >>> decontextualized occurrences of terms such as in menu lists) will be done >>> in a very clumsy and convoluted way of going from A to B to C to D only >>> to >>> return to A. For goodness' sake, do it in the A! >>> >>> Best regards, >>> >>> A. >>> >>> 2013.08.25 21:38, Mr. Phan Anh rašė: >>> >>> As a single project/application, I would agree, this is an amazing idea >>>> ever ! >>>> >>>> But, again with letter "B", AOO is a huge project. >>>> The deployment for translation also take developers much time to >>>> maintain >>>> when they have time for dealing with bugs and issues :) >>>> >>>> But, thank for your sharing about this, if I am a moderator of AOO >>>> forums, >>>> I will vote for you. >>>> >>>> >>>> On Mon, Aug 26, 2013 at 1:33 AM, Aivaras Stepukonis >>>> <[email protected]>wrote: >>>> >>>> Would you like to be able to edit menu descriptors by simply pressing >>>> the >>>> >>>>> Ctrl key and right-clicking them, as an example? I certainly would! >>>>> >>>>> As simple as that, even if it goes against a trend or two. The >>>>> objective >>>>> here is to have the maximum time and effort spend on the quality of >>>>> translation. >>>>> >>>>> Actually seen from a development POW, it neither impossible nor far >> fetched >> to make something like that. >> >> Language packs are in praxis an extension (admitted a special one), but >> just as I am wring an application that generates the language pack (new >> translation workflow = genLang), its possible to write an application >> that >> edit a language pack. >> >> Combine such an editor, with a program (or AOO extension) that catches >> keystrokes, and we are very close. Due to way the graphic subsystem works, >> I am pretty sure that you would need to restart AOO. >> >> However, this requires resources, and at least now most developers focus >> on >> other areas. As far as I know, I am the only one actively programming on >> tools to help the translation workflow. >> >> rgds >> jan I. >> >> >> >> Best regards, >>>>> >>>>> Aivaras >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> 2013.08.25 21:08, Mr. Phan Anh rašė: >>>>> >>>>> You should try transifex, they are using the method of statistic >>>>> base on >>>>> >>>>>> the percentage of the words/phrases/characters. >>>>>> >>>>>> Transifex is a paid service, but with the type of project open source, >>>>>> you >>>>>> can do a little test for your testing translation, it will give you >>>>>> big >>>>>> surprise. >>>>>> Crowdin uses a style of a real CAT style, with the embedded Bing & >>>>>> Google >>>>>> inside, but it also restricts with project (free for open source but >>>>>> you >>>>>> have to get contact with them first). >>>>>> Meanwhile, Transifex asks you to pay fee for their service of using >>>>>> API >>>>>> from Google & Bing. >>>>>> >>>>>> And about the speed stuff. >>>>>> Yeah, this is really a hell for us. >>>>>> When working with a single po file, wow, Pootle is charming, such as >>>>>> xvideos for free. >>>>>> But with multiple po file, and assume this po file has 3 >>>>>> unstranslated, >>>>>> that po file has 15 unstranslated, these po file have... those po file >>>>>> have... in a single click of "untranslated strings", and then, the >>>>>> speed >>>>>> after pressing Ctrl+Enter would be a long waiting. >>>>>> >>>>>> Pootle is free of charge, embedded inside every own system/website. >>>>>> >>>>>> So, everthing is ok, better or worse, well, base on our choice and >>>>>> money. >>>>>> >>>>>> At least, we havent used the type of "upstream" any more, this is >>>>>> really a >>>>>> disaster. >>>>>> Translating offline and pushing up, well, not a trend though. >>>>>> >>>>>> Pootle/transifex/crowdin is a trend of "cloud", this case, is good. >>>>>> But as I have said above, choice and money again, will decide the >>>>>> leading >>>>>> role. >>>>>> >>>>>> >From your email of sharing about foobar, this would make me a heart >>>>>> attack, >>>>>> honestly I havent joined any kind of that translation activity. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Mon, Aug 26, 2013 at 12:55 AM, Aivaras Stepukonis >>>>>> <[email protected]>wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> I certainly do echo your concerns about some inconveniences a >>>>>> translator >>>>>> >>>>>> has to go through to get his/her job done properly. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I use Pootle only for searching term occurrences and locations in the >>>>>>> PO >>>>>>> file structure. Otherwise, it is too slow compared to working with, >>>>>>> say, >>>>>>> Virtaal. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> For translating greater bulks of text, PO files is a fine way to go. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The greatest source of frustration are the discrete (i.e. >>>>>>> decontextualized) words whose meanings (sometimes in part, sometimes >>>>>>> in >>>>>>> whole) can only be determined by looking at the actual UI, except >>>>>>> that >>>>>>> there is no UI to look at! >>>>>>> >>>>>>> If one is translating to a synthetic language such as my native >>>>>>> Lithuanian >>>>>>> (other examples being Polish, Russian, etc.), the need for >>>>>>> syntactical >>>>>>> and >>>>>>> grammatical context is even greater because one has to get right not >>>>>>> only >>>>>>> the concept of the original term but also the target grammatical form >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> that term, of which (form) there may be quite a few... >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Without the proper rendition of these forms (such as number, gender, >>>>>>> and >>>>>>> case), the localized version of AOO will simply look untidy and >>>>>>> amateurish, >>>>>>> pushing one to revert to the English version of AOO with all the sad >>>>>>> consequences of indirect conceptual assimilation... >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The most graceful solution for the translation of the discrete >>>>>>> linguistic >>>>>>> elements (mostly, terms in the menu lists) of the UI is to have a >>>>>>> translator's version and/or moder of AOO, that would allow to edit >>>>>>> the >>>>>>> words directly in the UI. That would open a whole new level of >>>>>>> efficiency >>>>>>> and quality control for translators and ultimately foster the >>>>>>> willingness >>>>>>> of AOO end users to opt for the native UI. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> A nice little example of being able to edit some of the linguistic >>>>>>> elements of UI, is Foobar2000 for those who know it. I wouldn't be >>>>>>> surprised to find out there are are more programs with a flexibility >>>>>>> of >>>>>>> this sort. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> These are some random observations of mine that I wanted to pass on >>>>>>> at >>>>>>> the >>>>>>> moment. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Best wishes, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Aivaras >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> 2013.08.25 19:18, Vladislav Stevanovic rašė: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Hello, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I can see that someone of us look for a better, easier way for >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> translating >>>>>>>> AOO. >>>>>>>> (Look: Brainstorming: Can we refactor the website to make >>>>>>>> translation >>>>>>>> easier?) That is good. >>>>>>>> I am in middle of process of translating AOO into Serbian language. >>>>>>>> My >>>>>>>> suggestion is: when we translating on Pootle, it would be great help >>>>>>>> if >>>>>>>> there will be path for ui, e.g. where this sentence or word are >>>>>>>> located >>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>> ui, and how to find them in ui. >>>>>>>> Example: "Current selection" Path: Writer/Tools/Word count >>>>>>>> On the pootle is avaliable location where is stored this word or >>>>>>>> sentence, >>>>>>>> but in unfamiliar way for non-programmers. Here are, I guess, >>>>>>>> present >>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>> translators who are not an programmers. Also, for better >>>>>>>> translation, >>>>>>>> sometimes only way to figure what means something what we want to >>>>>>>> translate >>>>>>>> is to see in ui what actualy represent this word/sentence, what >>>>>>>> action. >>>>>>>> So, >>>>>>>> somebody who decide about this, please take this suggestion in >>>>>>>> considering >>>>>>>> and is it possible to do this. >>>>>>>> We will get much more friendly-user tool for translating, and we >>>>>>>> will >>>>>>>> get >>>>>>>> much more better translation. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Regards >>>>>>>> Stevanović Vladislav >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> ------------------------------********------------------------** >>>>>>>> --** >>>>>>>> --** >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> --**--------- >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: l10n-unsubscribe@openoffice.******** >>>>>>> apache.org< >>>>>>> http://apache.org**> >>>>>>> <l10n-unsubscribe@****openoffice**.apache.org<http:/** >>>>>>> /openoffice.apache.org <http://openoffice.apache.org>> >>>>>>> <l10n-unsubscribe@**openoffice**.apache.org<http://openoffice.apache.org> >>>>>>> <l10n-unsubscribe@**openoffice.apache.org<[email protected]> >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: [email protected].****** >>>>>>> **org< >>>>>>> l10n-help@openoffice.**apache.****org <http://apache.org> < >>>>>>> [email protected].****org <[email protected].** >>>>>>> org <[email protected]>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> ------------------------------******--------------------------** >>>>>>> --** >>>>>>> >>>>>> --**--------- >>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: l10n-unsubscribe@openoffice.******apache.org< >>>>> http://apache.org**> >>>>> <l10n-unsubscribe@**openoffice**.apache.org<http://openoffice.apache.org> >>>>> <l10n-unsubscribe@**openoffice.apache.org<[email protected]> >>>>> > >>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: [email protected].**** >>>>> **org< >>>>> l10n-help@openoffice.**apache.**org <http://apache.org> < >>>>> [email protected].**org <[email protected]>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ------------------------------****----------------------------** >>> --**--------- >>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: >>> l10n-unsubscribe@openoffice.****apache.org<http://apache.org> >>> <l10n-unsubscribe@**openoffice.apache.org<[email protected]> >>> > >>> For additional commands, e-mail: [email protected].****org< >>> l10n-help@openoffice.**apache.org <[email protected]>> >>> >>> >>> > > ------------------------------**------------------------------**--------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: > l10n-unsubscribe@openoffice.**apache.org<[email protected]> > For additional commands, e-mail: > [email protected].**org<[email protected]> > >
