On 17 December 2013 22:55, sebb <seb...@gmail.com> wrote: > On 17 December 2013 14:17, Gabriela Gibson <gabriela.gib...@gmail.com> > wrote: > > Hi everyone, > > > > as you probably are aware, I had an idea fail to win an Apache Lab spot > > recently. > > Did it fail? > I did not notice a failed vote. > > > Being the incurable optimistic realist that I am, I counted no -1's, one > +1 > > vote, one committer who joined my project immediately, and the fact that > > the idea wrote itself in about 16 hours flat. > > > > So on balance, I think as ideas go, this is a pretty good one, and whilst > > Apache Lab technically failed for me, it is still a big fat profit in my > > book :-) > > > > It was also recently suggested that Apache Labs could do with some ideas. > > So, having some experience of the Apache Lab process, here is my > personal > > frank take and lemonade recipe, in no particular order and without > > guarantee of validity. > > > > Enjoy the lemonade! :) > > > > =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= > > > > * People who are eligible to vote and the process > > > > Problem: Most of the Apache PMC's are busy, successful people and may not > > have much spare time and there are only 72 hours for them to find out, > > think about and approve an idea, and then X-mas weekend shopping + real > > life happens. > > That is a misunderstanding. > The 72 hours is a MINIMUM period. >
for normal votes yes, but lazy consensus is normally considered 72 hours unless otherwise specified. And the labs bylaws mix the 2 forms, so nobody really knows what to rely on. Lazy consensus cannot work with a MINIMUM period, it depends on a fixed period. rgds jan I. > > > Solution: Scrap the vote, the mechanics are too failure prone. > > I see no problem here (yet). > > > An Apache Committer usually already has passed the community quality test > > as person who can partake constructively in the community, so, they can > be > > trusted to use the Lab space productively if given a spot. If not, > well, > > this can be dealt with on a case-by-case basis. > > > > Open up the Apache Lab committee and appoint some Lab Guardians from the > > wider community whose job it will be to facilitate the success of ideas > > gifted to us. > > > > Surely that is what the Lab PMC are already. > > > * What is a 'quality' idea? > > > > One that survives the ensuing fight. It might start small and ugly, but > it > > needs opinions to grow and find shape. A good idea can awe people into > > silence (what could I possible add? Will my critique look mean?). In > that > > case, send praise! > > > > Even a bad idea can fire people up into joining the melee and at the end, > > the idea often has morphed into something totally different, and shines > > because it's been roughed up to a high polish. > > > > So, we can at best say 'I like', but, until the concept has been > thoroughly > > worked on by the community, 'quality' is relative. Maybe we can define > it > > best as 'quality ideas inspire people to participate in their formation > > process'. > > > > But, the process makes or breaks the idea, not the other way round. > > > > > > * Purpose of Apache Labs > > > > I see Apache Labs as a prelude to Incubator -- it should be the nest > where > > the egg is laid before it can be placed for hatching. > > > > Problem: This currently isn't happening, the mailing list is very quiet, > > and part of the reason may be that Apache Labs can look like a 'tough > gig' > > and people who are looking for a space to play, might be intimidated by > > seeing stuff get turned down. The initial stepping out and presentation > is > > quite a fragile and worrying process and takes a lot of guts on part of > the > > designer. > > > > Solution: Open up the playground. Invite & recruit --- the more the > > merrier. Apache Labs should be a noisy, lively place that is easy to > > enter, and could do with some guidance as to how the community should > work > > ideas. > > > > I do not see it as problem that non Apache members may not commit, this > is > > what the mailing list and patches are for, and if Lab does it's job > > correctly it also functions as an entry process for potential new > > committers who make friends in this informal place and hopefully get > roped > > into existing Apache projects. > > > > Additional thought: Some ideas are spanning several projects and the > > originating project space may sometimes not be the right forum to test an > > idea because the audience may be not be diverse enough. > > > > Apache Labs should be that space where projects can share ideas of this > > kind with the rest of the community before deciding to take it into their > > space or perhaps homing it elsewhere. Also, if projects bring ideas to > Lab > > and invite their members to go take a look, it will promote Lab in their > > communities and we'll get more visitors. > > > > > > * A culture for nurturing ideas > > > > An idea is always just a little bit of raw material. It can be smashed > into > > pieces and new ideas can be built from the fragments. It can grow into > > something wonderful, or be a good demonstration of why we do not do > things > > that way. It's a teacher. And, good teachers are always ready to > deliver > > proof of what they claim when challenged. > > > > Of course this should and can be done politely, but in essence, the > process > > of working an idea into shape is always contentious to some degree. It's > > like making sausages, the result is great, but the process is somewhat > > mucky and needs some rules because it's etiquette lies somewhat out of > the > > normal social space, it's a melee by definition, but even melees have > (and > > need) engagement rules. > > > > Hence, Apache Labs needs a statement how ideas should be treated by the > > community and we should have guidelines that help people make great > > omelettes whilst being careful to compost the shells to make new fertile > > compost to grow new stuff in. > > > > Apache Labs also needs a more cleared defined pathway of how to reach the > > goal of entering the Incubator. > > > > > > * People who design ideas > > > > Some designers only have one idea they've carefully worked a lot on, > > others are literally plagued by a torrent of them and just make nice > > sketches they want to show and share. > > > > Some want to keep control of their ideas, others are just happy to give > > them away. > > > > However, all those creative people all have one thing in common: every > > designer always defends their creation like a mother hen, because it's > > usually their heartfelt opinion and best effort of creating the shape > that > > things should be. If it were not so, we would not have ideas! > > > > Some designers can fall into the trap of viewing their idea as a public > > litmus for their capability, and some people may feel they have a > > professional reputation to protect, and public failure feels > > uncomfortable. This dread is more pronounced in designers who are new to > > publishing their ideas, and it's totally natural and part of the growth > > process of a designer. A good culture will go a long way of making that > > daunting first step easy and comfortable to take. > > > > Apache Labs needs to be explicit about stating that an idea fail is not > a > > personal failure, and that it's better to have an idea fail than not be > > presented, and that stepping out with the idea is a 'great job > > done' as is --- if an idea that is gifted to Apache Labs fails or > succeeds, > > we all learn something valuable, but the community is the actual body > that > > is collectively responsible for the outcome, and, win or lose, we all > have > > part of the honour. > > > > Ideas command our respect, and part of this is creative destruction. > > > > > > * How to fail an Apache Lab idea gracefully and productively > > > > I view Apache Labs as an entry point to Incubator. It's where the egg is > > conceived, and formed --- it arrives as a tiny bit of DNA instruction > > (inspiration), grows into a big yolk(idea), the albumen (community) > that > > will feed the embryo (project) is established , and a pretty shell is > > formed(shape) and finally the egg is laid, ready to be put into Incubator > > for hatching. > > > > The more eggs we produce, more successful the Incubator will be, and the > > more ASF will grow. Every idea we can win for our world is an addition > to > > our treasure hoard and a valuable chance for us. > > > > We cannot and should not control the creative process too much, it has > it's > > own momentum and at best we can facilitate the magic that happens, when > it > > does. There are of course techniques for conjuring up this happy event, > > and using them enhances the chances =) > > > > Let ideas fail naturally in the ensuing melee, a Lab is just a space > where > > things go *boom*, or serendipity turns mere mould into the saviour of > > humanity. > > > > It's a place where we discover things, not where already complete things > > are delivered, and it's impossible to evaluate an idea properly before > it's > > been tested by the community. > > > > An idea has failed when it's not growing or not rebuilt into a new idea. > > This is a longish process and a community effort, after all, if the > > designer could go solo they would, but they come to Apache Lab to gather > a > > community that turns their dream into reality. > > > > So, give every idea a year to be tested to destruction by all-comers, and > > if it hasn't made it to Incubator by then, we have our answer and it's > time > > to run a script that vaults the idea's repository and stashes it into a > > zip file complete with all the mails it attracted, ready to be delivered > > back safely to it's designer. Automate that process -- a retired project > > can always be resurrected, but hard deadlines tend to motivate people to > > make pace because there is no 'manana' option. > > > > A failed idea also deserves an 'exit interview' in order to help the > > designer to grow their creation-fu, and perhaps to point them into a more > > productive direction, Apache Lab may just not be the right place for this > > particular creation, despite everyone giving it their very best shot. > > > > So, the exit process is where all Apache Lab guardians should give a > frank > > assessment to the instigator, and this feedback should be the designers' > > document and he gets to decide which > > parts to publish on the Apache Lab mailing list. Some designers may > > publish the entire thing, others may want to keep it private. It's their > > personal reward for daring to step out into the lime light and > > gifting the Apache Community a toy to play with, and a pretty good > > consolation prize in it's own right. > > > > =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= > > > > Anyway, that's all the lemonade I got for now, I hope you liked my > recipe, > > if you did, go find some lemons and try it out :) :) :) > > > > All the best, > > > > Gabriela > > > > -- > > Visit my Coding Diary: http://gabriela-gibson.blogspot.com/ > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: labs-unsubscr...@labs.apache.org > For additional commands, e-mail: labs-h...@labs.apache.org > >
