May I make the suggestion that this topic be put on hold (not dropped but put on hold) until the lady in question has returned from her holiday and can speak to the issue herself. I think it is not fair to continue lobbing accusations of plagerism any further when she is not here to speak to the issue. I thought the original question was a fair one - has any one noticed these designs seem similar - but now it seems to be morphing into a direct attack on the designer in question.
Karolina, I appreciate your willingness to try and defend the original work of Ms. Novack but at this point I do not think you are accomplishing that goal. Protecting copyright and intellectual property is an admirable goal for us all but it has been pointed out that there are explanations other than sheer plagerism for the similarities you see in the works. If you feel there is a real problem I would wait and see what Rosemary has to say and if you still have an issue then take it to Ms Novak to deal with herself. If she then feels there is a problem she and her publisher are the appropriate ones to deal with it. I apologise for jumping in here as a newbie but I think this discussion is going no where rather rapidly. We should also remember that e-mail is considered correspondance in law and actionable comments made on a list like this could lead to real legal action. Just a caution to us all another group I belong to ran into this issue not long ago and it came very close to libel/slander action being taken. Janet and her 2 cents worth Fort McMurray, Alberta, Canada ----- Original Message ----- From: Karolina Jeffers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Date: Thursday, May 20, 2004 1:06 am Subject: [lace] Re: Fantasy Flowers > That isn't how I read the posts on this subject at all. What they > do all > seem to be saying is that it is possible for two people to > independentlycome up with very similar ideas.! > > My teaching notes are dated when I do them, ie when I need > handouts for a > class. This doesn't necessarily mean that the design or technique > theyrefer to is brand new to me, just that it's the first time I > want to run a a > workshop > on them and turn them into the public arena. Often the ideas and > prototypeshave been "work in progress" for a long time. The same > could apply to > Rosemary's notes dated late 80's. It is no evidence that she was > influencedby Novak. > > As my copy of the book has not arrived yet, I am unable to compare the > prickings with the ones designed by Jana Novak, and I am unclear > from your > comment " I had a look at Rosemary's web site and her new book" > whether you > have > actually seen the book, or just the write up and pictures. > > "What I really find fascinating is that no one has taken the time > to compare > the two books and make a constructive comment" As it is a new > book not many > of us will have had the opportunity to make this comparison yet > but even if > I > had been able to, probably the only comments I could make are on > the lines > of "Yes, there are notable similarities" or "No, I think the > similaritiesare > minor". Either way, it would be fairly subjective and would > throw no > further light on the influences, conscious or subconscious, behind > Rosemary's design > ideas. > > "I do not make any accusations, I simply state a fact." > Unfortunately, to > me at least, it did sound accusing. Unless you know for sure that > Rosemarywas > aware of and influenced by Novak's work then what you are implying > is not > stating a fact. The only fact is that there are similarities, > your post > seemed to take it much further. > > Jacquie > > > "If Rosemary made her first flowers in the late 70s then this predates > the Novak ones by a considerable margin. But no-one would think that > plagiarism has taken place the other way round, would they!<<<" > > Dear All, > > I am overwhelmed by the response my two emails caused. Someone is > talkingabout reversed plagiarism. And some else that this dirty > business should be > put to sleep. > > The second statement speaks for its self. Now to the issue of > plagiarism - > Lets look at Jana Novak's track record - she comes from Moravia, > being part > of Czech Republic where modern lace design is part of curiculum at the > college she attended and trained as Graphic Artist. Further in Czech > Republic lace > and lace design is being taught at some art colleges and Charles IV > University by no other than > Milca Eremiasova and other prominent lacemakers/teachers/designers. > Since late fifties until communism ended there were co-operatives > whereartistic lace design and lace making was of the prime > importance. Many > people in the world admired the lace that came out of > Czechoslovakia as the > country was known than, now Czech Republic and Slovak Republic. > They admired > the artistic style and the different and unique approach. > > When I attended Rosemary's workshop she talked about the > influences and her > admiration towards these designers and lacemakers and their artistic > attributes to the world of lace. > She also admired the works by Jana Novak, she made no secret of that. > I subscribe to the Danish magazine The Knipplebrevet where I can > see the big > influence Jana has on > people's designs in Denmark . Since she's lived in Denmark she > publishedmany books with her own designs on many different > subjects using many > different techniques. The book with title "Fri Knipling" was one > of her > first publicashions and is > now out of print - sadly. The Kantklosse in Vrije Vorm is a different > publication - > I have to take a punt at the translation but would translate it as > Bobbinlace in Free form. She also published books which are works > from many > different > designers. Designing and publishing books is her primary business > as well as > providing lacemakers with the necessary lacemaking supplies. She > is a > professional artist and designer. > I don't know if Jana knew of Rosemary but I do know that Rosemary > knows of > Jana. > The only book Rosemary previously published was "An > Introducction to Bobbin Lacemaking" where the content is primarily > Torchon.I have not seen any other book Rosemary published in the > late seventies on > "Fantasy Flowers". How could Jana plagiarise Rosemary's flowers if > she never > seen them? Jana lives in Denmark and Rosemary lives in Australia. > > Whilst Torchon patterns are easily reproduced independently it is a > different story in a free form design. > Every artist has his/her own artistic approach and is recognisable > by their > style. In the class of design I attended no two people designed > the same > piece. We are all unique human beings. Copyright does not protect the > designers unless they can enforce the copyright through courts, > and who has > the money to do that? So it is up to us to do the right thing and > abide by > the copyright law. I am not saying that one cannot adapt original > designerspatterns, what I am saying is that the original designers > should be > recognised. The adaptations must be substantially changed, by that > I mean > the actual design is changed, not how the lace is worked, whether > you choose > to use more pairs or less, work half stitch instead of cloth > stitch, go > around the pattern more than once etc. In regard to dating > teaching notes, > in Australia we date our notes when we first produce them. If we > amend the > notes we include this date etc., so you may have two or three > dates on the > notes. Some teachers instead of amendment date include the date of > theirnext workshop. > I find the dismissive aproach to this issue quite unsettling. This > issue is > a very serious issue and should be looked at in the same light. If > I was in > Rosemary's shoes I would remove the flowers in question and > publish only my > original designs. > > Karolina Jeffers > Thee times Proficiency qualified teacher > > - > To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the > line:unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
