Very cool! :) BTW, does the Eclipse plug-in work with vim plug-ins available out there? I haven't used Eclipse (Java was very buggy on FreeBSD amd64 until only recently), but I'm open to using it if I can configure it to have a vim-like keyboard mapping.
[ simon.cpu ] mt1 wrote: > Luckily, Spket IDE has just released. > It has not visual design tool, but it is good to work both stand alone > IDE and Eclipse plugin. > You can select it on your environment. > I have tried it just now, it works fine. If i can say more, it was good > to have more components on the snippets. :p > > mt1 > > > Cortlandt Winters wrote: >> HI Andy, >> >> I'd like to know. Are you more in need of layout, image design, or >> animation design? >> >> I'm asking because I have a lot of ideas for the three and have a >> theory that layout and animation design would be folk's top >> priorities, in that sequence, with image design a lesser priority, as >> individual images would probably still be authored in swf or png or >> gif and that the top two use cases would be 1) layout/binding and 2) >> animation. >> >> Does that fit with what you are thinking? >> >> -Cort >> >> On 4/3/07, *Andrew Chandler* <[EMAIL PROTECTED] >> <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> wrote: >> >> I don't know about anyone else but we've been using OpenLaszlo for >> 18 months and we are now in the process of moving away from it to >> plain ajax/jsf infrastructure. The reason given by management is >> the lack of visual design tools. The opinion (and I have to >> agree) is that it takes too long to train the new engineers on the >> specifics of laszlo design / layout on top of everything else they >> have to learn about our product. Too many of the other tools out >> there are allowing you to visually tweak the layout and look and >> feel of UI and laszlo is unfortunately behind the times with >> regard to this functionality. >> >> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> *From:* [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] >> <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>] *On Behalf Of *mt1 >> *Sent:* Tuesday, April 03, 2007 7:12 AM >> *To:* laszlo-user >> *Subject:* Re: [Laszlo-user] IDE4Laszlo status >> >> David, >> >> I know what your opinion on the IDE of OpenLaszlo. >> Yes, i agree with you about what you said there are a lot of good >> XML editors and OpenLaszlo >> programers can use them. >> Until a few month ago, i also used Eclipse with IDE4Laszlo. >> But now, i am using simple text editor to edit coding, and i am >> satisfied with using it. >> It was too heavy for my PC that was working Eclipse, Tomcat with >> LPS and PostgresSQL for database. >> >> But in the other hand, many engineers are using Eclipse. >> I fond a result of using IDE research by Nikkei-BP in Japan, as >> following. >> >> http://itpro.nikkeibp.co.jp/article/OPINION/20070329/266887/ >> <http://itpro.nikkeibp.co.jp/article/OPINION/20070329/266887/> >> >> Unfortunately it described with Japanese, but i say simply, >> Visual studio is the most used and >> Eclipse is the second. From this research, we don't look out the >> Eclipse environment. >> >> We should mention who are use the IDE. >> You know OpenLaszlo provided IDE for Eclipse at the first, but in >> Flex, the first was the FlexBuilder, >> the second was for Eclipse. I think we should give attention the >> IDE for whom. >> If we have image for *power* engineers, we don't any take care >> about IDE, because they can find some >> good programing tool which they like. >> If we have image for *ordinary* engineers, we might to provide >> for Eclipse environment. Because most >> of the engineers are in a IT department in their company and they >> can hardly to choice their >> *environment* for their development. The reason why, the one is >> the issue of standardization and the another is the >> *custom* for their coding style, and there are many more, i guess. >> Just i can say, there are >> many barrier to introduce some *new developing tool* into their >> corporate department. But if it is based on >> Eclipse, it can easy to introduce into it. Because they already >> *have* and *know* it. >> But if we have image for *beginner* engineer, that mean who is a >> web designer or a novice programer, >> the visual design tool will be big present for them. >> I know you are almost thinking about those. >> >> Back to your opinion, the visual tool is great efficient tool. >> But it should have relation with the text coding tool >> or it ought to include it. Because it must occur with bit control >> on the editor, like x/y position control or some >> attribute and more. >> I can say it dose not work on Eclipse, but Eclipse plugin have a >> advantage compare with it. >> It mean not *tool* but *strategy*. >> OpenLaslzo and Webtop are very cool, but most of engineers >> requires a development tool too. >> I have no doubt it is very important point to generalize >> OpenLaszlo. >> >> So my opinion, it is glad for them to get two coding tool. The >> one is the *special* design tool( like FlexBuilder ) >> and the other is the plugin for Eclipse. :-) >> >> mt1 >> >> >> jamesr wrote: >>> >>> On Mar 24, 2007, at 12:16 PM, David Temkin wrote: >>> >>>> mt1, >>>> >>>> IDE4Laszlo -- we (Laszlo Systems) haven't done anything with it >>>> and don't plan to. Doesn't mean someone else can't do something >>>> with it. >>>> >>>> One idea that we're discussing now is to kick off a project to >>>> make an LZX-based graphical editor. It's scope would be limited >>>> to the graphical layout, positioning, linkage, attributes, etc >>>> of LZX objects. It would not be code editing-focused -- there >>>> are tons of tools for that. It would be written in LZX, and >>>> would run in the browser. It would support "round-trip" >>>> editing, so that you could edit with an IDE/code editor, and >>>> then the visual editor, and then the code editor again, without >>>> loss. The back-end, which would read and manipulate the LZX >>>> files, would be written in Java, and would run in the same >>>> context as OL itself. >>>> >>>> What do you think of this approach? Right now it's just a concept. >>>> >>>> - D. >>>> >>> >>> I did thought experiments and prototyped a system like this bit >>> back. It is doable, with a set of limitations as to what can be >>> edited. You couldn't see the effects of editing Javascript in >>> the IDE (you'd have to compile because eval isn't strong in >>> there) but you could see the effects of adding and removing >>> attributes, changing layouts, etc. To me the concept hinged on >>> building components - classes with specifications that could be >>> read by the IDE - that would become available to use. It >>> wouldn't just be any set of LZX code, but an easily extendable >>> ever growing list of "prepared" classes. This way the parameters >>> to any class could be known and displayed properly. >>> >>> I saw something similar to RealBasic's IDE coming out of this >>> approach. >>> >>> I had this running in Blooms (a laszlo templating system) and >>> although i wasn't targetting reading from LZX - it was going to >>> choose a Blooms language intermediate that would render to LZX - >>> I had some interesting ideas as to how the layout of the IDE >>> would work. For instance, since the blooms thing has "server" >>> transforms that build XML datasources, datasources would also be >>> included in the IDE in a "cloud" that you'd pair and move around >>> in groups of their functionality (in python fwiw). From a visual >>> standpoint, i thought it would be nice to describe complete >>> applications with server side resources in a single environment. >>> >>> The proof of concept system properly read in the list of >>> components and their attributes, and allowed you to make new >>> components on screen, to prove it was possible. It seems so. >>> >>> Hope this is topical, >>> James. >>> >>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> > -- And /usr/games/fortune futurama says: Leela: Zoidberg! Zoidberg: Sorry, you must have been boring.
