Sorry,

small correction

Expenses and Incomes are tracked at the historical exchange rate



On Sun, Mar 10, 2019 at 4:46 PM Chary Chary <[email protected]> wrote:

> Richard,
>
> thanks for your inputs.
>
> I also was thinking about this. Even more, I have now written a document 
> (Multiple
> currency accounting example with trading account
> <https://docs.google.com/document/d/1z57E8KZ9hIF71s39dDKaE5ow1N7BdJ-eX8y2BFjR9kc/edit?usp=sharing>),
>  which
> describes proposed calculation method. As an appendix, this document
> contains google sheet
> <https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1-wdXsPcBLjbYO9qLi924X2JWPw8plkWeGbSdjttcsZY/edit?usp=sharing>,
> where you can see how the method is implemented and play around with it.
>
> The approach is quite simple
>
>
>    1.
>
>    Expenses are tracked at the historical exchange rate (e.i. at the
>    exchange rate, available during transaction). When exchange rate changes,
>    Expenses and Income do not get re-calculated.
>
> This is believed to be inline with conventional wisdom , that if you have
> consumed pizza for 10 USD, there is no reason to re-calculate how much this
> pizza is worth now in EUR, when USD/EUR exchange rate changed. It only
> makes sense to know how much that pizza was worth in EUR, when you consumed
> it.
>
>
>    1.
>
>    Assets and Liabilities on the other side are recalculated with every
>    event of exchange rate change.
>
> This is also inline with conventional wisdom. If you own 1000 of Currency
> / stock XYZ and all of a sudden this currency became more expensive (just
> think of Bitcoin), this means you actually got reacher and you want to see
> it.
>
>
>    1.
>
>    The exchange rate changes are taken care in the following way:
>
> A special Commodity Revaluation transaction is logged. Following the
> principle of double-entry accounting
>
>    -
>
>    one shoulder of transaction is logged to corresponding Asset and / or
>    Liability accounts to adjust these accounts to new exchange rate.
>    -
>
>    another shoulder is logged to special Gain due to commodity price
>    change (trading account, using Peter Selinger’s terminology).
>
>
> The example calculation can be seen in Appendix A. Google sheet - based
> calculation example
> <https://docs.google.com/document/d/1z57E8KZ9hIF71s39dDKaE5ow1N7BdJ-eX8y2BFjR9kc/edit#heading=h.ibvb27d8cznn>
>
> So, to answer your particular question:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *For example, say you gain 1000 USD in income during that period.
> What's the right way to understand that change in terms of EUR?  Should
> we value the 1000 in EUR on the date that you took it in, and use
> that number in a running total of EUR gained and lost throughout the
> period? Or should we continue to think of it as 1000 USD until the very end
> of the period in question, and then convert the running total to EUR
> using the exchange rate at the end of the period? *
>
> In income account, this 1000 USD have to be tracked with historical
> exchange rate
> If however these 1000 USD were put as asset in bank account, then they now
> have to be re-calculated to follow changes in USD/EUR exchange rate AND
> gain due to revaluation has to be logged
>
> Please check my document and see whether it makes sense.
>
> I still need to check your ledger examples. I must say it is quite
> possible, that ledger actually does something like that.
>
> Regards.
>
> Chary
>
>
> On Friday, March 8, 2019 at 9:59:26 AM UTC+1, Richard Lawrence wrote:
>>
>> Hi Chary and all,
>>
>> Chary Chary <[email protected]> writes:
>>
>> > yes, thanks for your patience. Sorry if I did not express myself
>> correctly
>> > initially. You got me right with small corrections. I want:
>> >
>> > - a single report
>> >
>> > - that shows the change in your assets and Liabilities between two
>> points
>> > in time
>> >
>> > - grouped into Accounts (line with the balance) command
>> >
>> > - which includes unrealized gains and losses
>> >
>> > - where the total reflects the overall change
>>
>> OK, after thinking through this a bunch more, and getting myself fairly
>> confused, I believe I have convinced myself that what you're looking for
>> doesn't make sense yet.
>>
>> Here's the problem.  You want a report that lumps together two kinds of
>> changes during a specific time period: actual transactions, recorded in
>> a specific currency (say, USD) and potential gains/losses due to changes
>> of prices in commodities during that period, including alternate
>> currencies (say, EUR).  But these two kinds of changes are orthogonal to
>> one another and it's not yet clear how they should interact.
>>
>> For example, say you gain 1000 USD in income during that period.  What's
>> the right way to understand that change in terms of EUR?  Should we
>> value the 1000 in EUR on the date that you took it in, and use that
>> number in a running total of EUR gained and lost throughout the period?
>> Or should we continue to think of it as 1000 USD until the very end of
>> the period in question, and then convert the running total to EUR using
>> the exchange rate at the end of the period?
>>
>> It seems that you can *either* ask the question:
>>
>> (1) How did my *actual* assets change during a specific *period* in time?
>>
>> or:
>>
>> (2) Given my actual assets at a specific *point* in time, what potential
>> gains/losses would I incur by converting those assets to another
>> commodity (say, another currency) *at that point in time*?
>>
>> but I don't think it makes sense to ask:
>>
>> (3) How did my assets, including *unrealized* (i.e., potential)
>> gains/losses due to currency conversions, change during a specific
>> period?
>>
>> In other words, I don't think it makes sense to talk about how the
>> *unrealized* value of assets *changed* over a period in time.  Or at
>> least, it doesn't make sense until you make some decisions about how to
>> define the non-actual value of assets at different points in time.
>>
>> You can answer question (1) in a variety of ways.  The easiest one is
>> just:
>>
>> ledger bal Assets -b begin_date -e end_date
>>
>> (Note: begin_date must be some time *after* your opening balances, if
>> you only want to see changes, not the full total for the account on the
>> day before end_date.)
>>
>> If you want a breakdown of where those changes come from, you might find
>> this version more helpful:
>>
>> ledger reg Assets -b begin_date -e end_date --related --subtotal
>>
>> On the other hand, using -b/-e with -X and --unrealized doesn't seem to
>> make sense, as I explained above (although ledger happily accepts them
>> both, probably because it uses one of the specific interpretations I
>> mentioned to understand your non-actual assets across a given period).
>> To answer question (2), you need something like:
>>
>> ledger bal Assets --unrealized -X some_commodity
>>
>> perhaps adding --now=... or -e end_date if you want to know your
>> unrealized gains/losses in some_commodity at a point in time other than
>> right now.
>>
>> Does this make sense?
>>
>> --
>> Best,
>> Richard
>>
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