On Fri, 8 Jan 2016 10:06:49 +0100 Chris Travers <chris.trav...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Fri, Jan 8, 2016 at 4:32 AM, ledger-smb-users < > ledger-smb-us...@infopower.nl> wrote: > > > > I appreciate your sensitivity on this but in the context of this > > > discussion, but in this context, feel free to discuss it. > > > > Good. It is ledger-cli. Written in C, and working surprisingly > > fast, it has a command line interface although there's also a fork, > > hledger, which can work with a browser GUI. > > > > I have looked at Ledger-CLI because it was chosen as the basis for an > open source non-profit-oriented solution. > > It is well done for what it does. One of the impressions that I got > from it was that the direction we are moving, in the area of a clear > separation of mechanism from interface, is a good one and that is one > thing that LedgerCLI does very well (making it a very good for very > small operations). > > > > > It maintains a 'database' in text format with different files for > > payors/payees and for their commodities and their prices if you > > like to maintain those, and for the accounts of course. it's all > > plain readable and relations between the > > entities are clear and can easily be tracked down if needed. > > > > Right. It has to lock that so no concurrent access right? I mean > you can have a server which serializes requests and enters them one > at a time, but you cannot have multiple readers and multiple writers > at the same moment, as I understand it. So the design limitations > are different. If it works for you I won't be the one to bad mouth > them or anything. It's a good program for what it does. Yes, I forgot to mention the lack of simultaneous access by multiple users. It's something that I don't need. > However it is worth noting what we can learn from them. > > > > > Inputting is very fast and for repeating transactions you simple do > > a search/copy/paste in your text document and change the date. > > > > I wonder how hard it woudl be to make a ledger-cli-compatible import > library for LSMB. Not sure we could do the same tagging they do (our > tagging system is different) but for basic format stuff should be > easy I think. I will add an enhancement item to do this. That would be very helpful for my future return to LSMB, thanks. :) Best regards, ario > > If the commodity's price has changed you put a new, time stamped, > > entry in the price list. > > > > It's not for people who have no clue of computers and are only > > windows GUI users, but for people like me, with some basic (and > > then some more) understanding of computers it's very useable. > > > > Reporting is quite comprehensive yet not straight forward, but here > > my litlle bit more-than-basic understanding of computers plays out > > quite well. Not to mention the free (as in free beer) support on > > the forum, irc channel where the main developer chimes in on a > > regular basis. > > > > Install is not straight forward but much less complicated than lsmb > > was. > > > > It's not an ERP but that's not what I need. > > > > I just need the expenses, income, stocks (oh, it does handle those > > also in an elegant manner--no 'warehouses' though), sales and > > receivables/payables and the reporting thereof, on a project basis. > > > > If you remember (it's years ago) the project based reporting was my > > main reason for starting with LSMB, but with ledger-cli that's > > covered as well now. > > > > However, before I leave this world, which won't be anytime soon if > > it were up to me, I'm sure I'll have to go back to something like > > LSMB for my successors to be able to continue the things I'm doing > > now with ledger, so I'm still interested in the developments. > > Hence my continued subscription to this list. :) > > > > Thanks again for the discussion here. It is worth seeing what we can > learn from them as well. > > Best Wishes, > Chris Travers > > > > > > > > > > After all, we can't be everything to everybody, which means > > > > > it's definitely good to have alternatives to point people to. > > > > > > > > Right, it's no problem. > > > > > > > > > > By now probably things have changed in LSMB in that maybe > > > > > > there is a confirmation step now, but I'm sure I would find > > > > > > another way to do something seriously damaging to the > > > > > > database. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Actually, it would be very helpful, if you did that :-) > > > > > > > > Your sense of humour is appreciated. :) > > > > > > > > > > Actually almost every time we have seen this, it has prompted > > > database fixes, so seriously..... > > > > > > > > > > > > > Then there was the install procedure which was really some > > > > > > excercise in self-torture for a diy-er... I'm happy to hear > > > > > > that things are going to improve, or already have. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Right. There's a direct relation between this point and the > > > > > incorporation of Efficito, which offers a hosted solution: > > > > > there's a direct relationship between the complexity of the > > > > > setup procedure and the desire to be not only an accounting > > > > > system, but also to integrate invoicing, with PDF invoices, > > > > > open item management, inventory management, fixed assets > > > > > administration and so on, with the ability to mail customers > > > > > and vendors directly from inside the system. (Although, > > > > > granted, most users probably most heavily use the accounting > > > > > side.) > > > > > > > > I sense a tiny amount of friction here with the open source > > > > model if not 'home use' but understand the rationale. > > > > > > > > > > Well, Erik's sentence above covers a breathtaking scope in terms > > > of what we actually offer. > > > > Yes, and it's the combination of you offering an open source > > solution as well running a business based on it which made me > > hesitating mentioning the other sulution that I'm using now. > > > > > The setup complexity for a basic system for a given industry will > > > eventually get solved for some definition of "setup." THis could > > > be done with vms or docker images, or better packaging. > > > > With 'better' packaging you probably mean 'faster'? I agree. > > VM Appliances would be an option, but not for me as I'm using Qubes > > OS, but Docker images could work also. > > > > > But if I > > > understand Erik's points above that's a minority really of what we > > > are talking about. > > > > > > First, people will want some new templates or the like. Some of > > > this can be improved as well. But design is design and that is > > > not something you can just drop in regardless of the technology > > > used. > > > > > > But then we have things which are "setup" issues but are their own > > > disciplines. If you are slightly larger, how do you tune > > > PostgreSQL? Do you want backups? An ability to restore to a > > > point in time if something goes badly? Where are these stored? > > > Want replication? What then? > > > > With the ledger-cli I'm using git for that. :) > > > > > Then we get to emailing invoices. > > > > No need for that. > > > > > Here anti-spam best practices have > > > changed a lot in the last decade Do you want to keep up with > > > that? > > > > No. > > > > > Then there are other aspects. Do you want training? > > > > No. > > > > > Or is > > > documentation and the email lists good enough? > > > > If comprehensive enough: Yes. > > > > > What about on-going > > > support? > > > > Well, of course. :) > > > > > There are a lot of people for whom these extra burdens of running > > > a system are really not very attractive. That is effectively > > > where Efficito comes in. > > > > Fully understood. > > > > > Are we the only vendor here? No. > > > Do we want to be the only vendor here? No. > > > Do we want people to run LSMB at home? Yes. > > > Are we here to help? Yes. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks for introducing me to accounting however, I learned a > > > > > > lot of this experience.- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks again for following up on your original feedback! > > > > > Happy and prosperous 2016! > > > > > > > > And to you too. > > > > > > > > > > Thanks again! > > > > You're welcome. Thanks for the elaborate reply. > > > > > > ario > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ario > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > Ledger-smb-users mailing list > > > > Ledger-smb-users@lists.sourceforge.net > > > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/ledger-smb-users > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > > Ledger-smb-users mailing list > > Ledger-smb-users@lists.sourceforge.net > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/ledger-smb-users > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Ledger-smb-users mailing list Ledger-smb-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/ledger-smb-users
