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--- Begin Message ---Okay now that I open what I thought would be a somewhat thought provoking question, and not to get sidetracked with reprints, do we still list it as a image as a book or what in regards to Ancestry?? In addition I didn't see the question in regards to same city but different years if one needed a different source for each year ? If not, how to go about it. Thanks! Thomas Sent from my iPad > On Oct 29, 2016, at 11:35 PM, Barton Lewis <[email protected]> wrote: > > Denise, > > Well, Ancestry’s publishing of city directories and other books gives me > “reasonable assurance,” as do (say) the US county websites which have their > records online, or Google Books, or familysearch, where one can find digital > images. I guess if an individual had published an image on their personal > website and that’s the only place it was, or otherwise could not be found, I > might balk at citing it, but in general, I’m more interested in how to cite > the material than questioning its provenance. I do try and secure originals > of primary sources; secondary sources, I’m not so finicky about, though I try > and see them at my library, when I can. > > Barton > > > > From: LegacyUserGroup [mailto:[email protected]] On > Behalf Of Denise Moss-Fritch > Sent: Sunday, October 30, 2016 1:07 AM > To: 'Legacy User Group' > Subject: Re: [LegacyUG] How to set up master source for City Directories in > Legacy > > Barton, > > Not sure the following will provide any clarification. However, the National > Genealogical Society publishes a series of recommendations across several > topics. The “Guidelines for Use of Computer Technology in Genealogical > Research” includes the following item: > > “accept digital images or enhancements of an original record as a > satisfactory substitute for the original only when there is reasonable > assurance that the image accurately reproduces the unaltered original” > > At least the item is something to think about. However, please remember that > is the view of only one country’s national genealogical organization. > > Denise > > > From: LegacyUserGroup [mailto:[email protected]] On > Behalf Of Barton Lewis > Sent: Saturday, October 29, 2016 9:43 PM > To: 'Legacy User Group' <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [LegacyUG] How to set up master source for City Directories in > Legacy > > Well, I don’t know that I’d call it “useless.” I think it’s actually > interesting and worth discussing – but then I love the nitty-gritty of source > citations. > > ESM does not seem to have adequately provided for a category of book that has > been photographed and published online, without having been “reprinted” in > the traditional sense of the word. In Section 12.60 of my version of EE (p. > 698), she covers “e-books,” which she groups into 4 categories: > · Audio versions of books issued in print; > · Text publications solely released on CD-ROM or online; > · Digital image editions of books previously published in print; and > · Reformatted digital editions of books previously appearing in paper > form. > The city directories example under discussion here seems to fall in the 3rd > category. But as Cathy has pointed out, when you go to this section in EE > (12.79), ESM has classified such matter as “reprints.” > > I agree with Denise and don’t think the term “reprints” applies here. I > would propose using the Source Writer template for books, edited and > bypassing the reprint option and choosing online image; I don’t see that you > lose anything by bypassing reprint and think it’s more accurate. > > Barton > > > > From: LegacyUserGroup [mailto:[email protected]] On > Behalf Of Cathy Pinner > Sent: Saturday, October 29, 2016 11:17 PM > To: Legacy User Group > Subject: Re: [LegacyUG] How to set up master source for City Directories in > Legacy > > What a useless discussion. It's Elizabeth Shown Mills that uses the term as > shown in the quote I gave. > > And yes in some discussion she also sees images as not the originals as > they're subject to tampering (less so with images at reputable sites but easy > if they're just emailed to you or photocopies etc) - which is why she makes > extensive notes on what exactly she uses and the quality of the image etc. > > I'm not that suspicious. > > Cathy > > Denise Moss-Fritch wrote: > > > Sorry Cathy, you are the one applying the term ‘reprint’ to these > records, not me. Would that mean you define all records found online > as ‘reprints’? Census? County record books? If so, than all records > found online would be secondary not the original. > > That would not be an record analysis to which I would not agree. > > Denise > > *From:*LegacyUserGroup > [mailto:[email protected]] *On Behalf Of *Cathy > Pinner > *Sent:* Friday, October 28, 2016 10:03 PM > *To:* Legacy User Group <[email protected]> > *Subject:* Re: [LegacyUG] How to set up master source for City > Directories in Legacy > > Your choice Denise > > but I'd read on further and see that ESS calls them facsimile reprints > or image reprints though in my edition she doesn't detail them online > but rather on CD or microfilm. > "12.79 Reprints: Image Editions > Reprints that offer image copies of earlier publications are called > facsimile reprints (as opposed to facsimile reproductions of original > records, covered at 12.77). However, the modern terms image copy or > image reprint are better understood today." > > Of course her caveats apply. > > No doubt her webpages or the later editions cover online reprints. > > I really don't care a bout exact ordering and commas etc so long as the > source can be found. Of course it needs the online detail and the > original publication detail. > > That's what the SourceWriter reprint templates, which are all based on > Evidence Explained, provid e. > > Cathy > > [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> wrote: > > > Cathy, > > Yes, I am aware of the sample's format style. However, I am also > aware > that a digital image of an original book (City Directory or > otherwise) > is not a reprint of the original publication. A reprint would include > both the original publication date and the date of the reprint. That > is standard practice of the publishing industry. Even the > publisher of > a reprint might / pr obably would differ from the publisher of the > original publication. > > As for SourceWriter, perhaps these differences is why I prefer not to > use that option. > > Thanks for the comments, > > Denise > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > *From: *"Cathy Pinner" <[email protected] > <mailto:[email protected]>> > *To: *"Legacy User Group" <[email protected] > <mailto:[email protected]>> > *Sent: *Friday, October 28, 2016 8:42:41 PM > *Subject: *Re: [LegacyUG] How to set up master source for City > Directories in Legacy > > Denise, > > you've give n an example for a Basic Format - real book City Directory. > An online version needs a layered source. > > Using the Books Reprint option is a way to get that and provides the > necessary fields for the online site and the original. > > Do you know that when looking for a template in the SourceWriter you > can enter the section number in the Find box? > > I just did this - and it gave the templates I pointed to. > > Cathy > > Denise Moss-Fritch wrote: > > > Cathy, > > I am a bit hesitant with describing a digitized (online) City > Directory as a ‘reprint’. Might I suggest you review section 12.75 > Reprints & Revisions in ‘Evidence Explained’ (p. 708-9) > > The book do es provide a sam ple source list entry for a City Directory > as follows: > > Polk, R. L., compiler. Colora do Springs, Colorado, City Directory. > Colorado Springs: R. L. Polk Directory Co., 1924, 1927, 1929, 1931. > > Typically the compiler and publishing information for a City > Directory > is found on the title / legal page of a directory, including the > digital images. > > Denise > > *From:*LegacyUserGroup > [mailto:[email protected]] *On Behalf Of *Cathy > Pinner > *Sent:* Friday, October 28, 2016 7:40 PM > *To:* Legacy User Group <[email protected] > <mailto:[email protected]>> > *Subje ct:* Re: [LegacyUG] How to set up master source for City > Directo ries in Legacy > > Thomas > > A Historical City Directory seen via images online, is a book that > has > been republished online. > So in SourceWriter start with Books and choose one of the reprint > options and then online book for the Medium. > If you want the full original publishing details, add them along with > the original publication date. > > C athy > > Thomas Vilfroy via LegacyUserGroup wrote: > > > The original message to the list is in the attachment. > > This action is required because of the DMARC Reject/Quarantine Policy > imposed by some email providers. Users who want to send messages > without conversion to attachments should use a different email a > ddress > for their subscription. > > Known providers for free email accounts whose emails do not require > this conversion include gmail.com and hotmail.com. Many other email > pr oviders will also work but you will have to give them a try. > > > -- > > LegacyUserGroup mailing list > [email protected] > <mailto:[email protected]> > To manage your subscription and unsubscribe > http://legacyusers.com/mailman/listinfo/legacyusergroup_legacyusers.com > Archives at: > http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/ > -- > > LegacyUserGroup mailing list > [email protected] > To manage your subscription and unsubscribe > http://legacyusers.com/mailman/listinfo/legacyusergroup_legacyusers.com > Archives at: > http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/
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