On Fri, 18 May 2012 05:11:57 -0500, Noel Henson said: > Matej, > > My old friend, nice to hear from you! You're the one that prompted me > on so when VO was in development. You created the original Percent > Done features. What you say had some truth in it. Bin sorting and > some of the other features can be implemented, sort of. The problem > comes in when their are children involved with such scripts. They > don't follow folding rules properly during cut/copy/paste/sort. > Things keep opening and closing at, what appears to be, random. I > have spent many, many hours on this. If you can come up with an > approach, I'll see what I can do to enhance it. I really have tried > hard to add these features. And then there's the issue with metadata > and information hiding.
I'd like to chime in here. I have no doubt that given the developer commitment, we could do almost anything with the Vim engine. I had one of the list-enhabitants come to my house somewhere around 2004 and demonstrate VO with clones. He'd used a database as an auxiliary store for metadata. Two questions remain: 1) Will VO developers have sufficient commitment to lasso the Vim engine into doing things it was never intended to do? 2) Will such strongarms add so much code that bugs become the norm rather than the exception? 3) Will VO's top priority, authoring speed, be compromised putting in these Vim engine incompatible features? On #1, I personally wouldn't spend a minute adding cloning or hoisting to VO. It's just too iffy, too increasive of complexity, and imho not a good idea. Actually, Leo does hoisting about the same way Noel did it back in the mid 2000's, but it's less glitchy and it's trusted. On #2, VO's actually gotten pretty big. There's a lot of vim-lang code in there. If it's gotten that big adding features compatible with Vim, imagine how it will grow when we add stuff that's just not natural in Vim. On #3, there are millions of outliners, but how many enable the operator to record and organize, in real time, the procedings of a meeting? How many would truly be practical for taking notes in class or a meeting? I think the list would be short indeed, and I want to make sure VO stays in that list. As a matter of fact, the way I'd plan to use the new outliner, whether it's Leo or something we make, is do the majority of the entry in classic VO, and then convert it to the new thing to add all the features. I already do this with LyX. LyX has a (lame) outliner built in, but it's too slow for rapid mind to file work, so I use VO to get the major book organization, then I convert it to LyX, and from there use LyX's outliner on the almost complete structure. > > I still love and use VO nearly every day. But, I believe, we can do > better with a better engine. I have tried EMACS (was a power user > some, damn, 20 years or so ago). but it's the digital (fingers) > contortions to go through on a modern keyboard. Give me an old DEC > VTxxx terminal and it seemed second nature. :-) I injured my left wrist in Gymnastics at 14, and that wrist has been weak ever since (and I'm quite a bit older than 14 now). Whenever I write more than 1500 words per day, like when I'm authoring a book, I have to put Ben Gay on that wrist several times a day. I'm hoping I won't end up being one of those people with a wrist brace not being able to grip or move their fingers. Given all that, I don't see EMACS in my future :-) SteveT > That is, until I > discovered vi. Anyway, I digress. If you have some insights or > approaches, we'd all be happy to hear them. I would love some fresh > ideas on how to mold vim into what we want. > > Let us know what you've been up to the last couple of years. I'm sure > we VO oldsters would be happy to hear about your endeavors. > > Noel > > > On 05/18/2012 04:59 AM, Matej Cepl wrote: > > On 13.4.2012 04:15, Noel Henson wrote: > >> I've tried for several hundred hours to recreate MaxThink in VO. > >> The problem with MT style focus is the ability in Vim to hide > >> information; the levels above and the children below. Vim, as cool > >> as it is, just doesn't have those capabilities. After all, Vim is > >> a text editor. VO > > > > Hi, everybody, > > > > let me chime in after couple of years of inactivity. > > > > I don't think the situation is as bad as Noel wrote here. yes, we > > apparently cannot have focused view, but still I think there is > > plenty of things which can be done (any vim-script loving > > volunteers here?): > > > > * sorting, binsorting, prioritizing, etc. stuff ... see > > http://maxthink.org/demo3/A02%20-%20Many%20ways%20to%20move%20topics.html > > for what I mean (yes, I hate Flash too, and yes I much prefer his > > writing to his presentations) > > * something about hypertext ... org-mode (which made me always > > tempted to switch to Emacs how great it is — but still not tempting > > enough, I guess ;)) can hide links. So, you have in text for example > > [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invisible_church][wikipedia] (or I > > would prefer even plain Wikipedia [url explanatory text] style) but > > what you see is just [wikipedia] with a different color. I thought > > it is impossible to achieve in vim, but when you look at help, > > there is something similar there. Targets for jumps have stars > > around them hidden, but when you start insert mode they show up. > > * as a cherry on the top of everything, org-mode has also a custom > > hypertext schemes. E.g., [[rhbz:752223][Example RH bug]] leads to > > https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=752223 or > > [[man:cat][cat manpage]] opens a cat(1) manpage. > > > > > > And yes, 0.3.6 is on its way through Fedora bureaucracy to be > > available soon. > > > > Matěj -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "leo-editor" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected]. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/leo-editor?hl=en.
