Offray, Kind of worrisome but I was pleased by a closing remark:
"The good news, though, is that it’s a simple matter of programming, and that all the core technologies for doing all the really hard things that need to be done (pip, and zipimport and macholib, for example) already exist." The post is certainly resonating https://twitter.com/glyph Anyone here got nuitka-foo? http://nuitka.net/pages/overview.html Seems to say it can make an executable file version of Leo On Mon, Sep 14, 2015 at 9:16 AM, Offray Vladimir Luna Cárdenas <[email protected]> wrote: > Hi Kent, > > Thanks for sharing this link. I have this feeling about the python ecosystem > (I could say that in general about OS paradigm, derived from Unix). A step > learning curve filled with a lot of details, different paradigms and tools, > joined with a lot friction (as I wrote on [1]). > > [1] > http://mutabit.com/offray/static/blog/output/posts/grafoscopio-idea-and-initial-progress.html > > I have talked several times about Leo and its "fulfilled prophesy" of being > a tool "from developers to developers" only, when the ideas of outlining, > self referential executable DOM, and deconstructing could be welcomed in a > lot of fields (for example academic writing or project consulting). And when > I say this I don't make it in a mean way. Leo, as every human creation, is > trapped by the culture of the human collective who made it. So in a group of > talented developers, what is seeing as cumbersome for the "final user" (like > editing leo files in Leo to change a preference o to enable a plugin) is > kind of "the natural thing" of a dev environment. Same happens to what is > considered an "interesting problem" ("end user" experience and usability are > not, usually). And I'm not saying that I wouldn't like to have more > empowered users, which can talk more naturally to the computer and use it in > more interesting ways, but is a difficult bridge to build. My idea to > explore that bridge with my own interactive outliner is to narrow the > functionality (just tree-like interactive writing and visualization) and > cross ideas from Leo, IPython, Smalltalk and other places. > > This phrase catch particularly my attention (because is pretty similar to > what happen to me): > > """ > it is honestly easier to learn an entirely new programming language and > toolchain, and rewrite an entire application than to figure out how to build > a self-contained executable in Python right now. > """ > > Of course I'm not planing to rewrite Leo and I still value it a lot and use > it frequently, but dealing with the cognitive burden and impedance of the > common development and OS paradigm, which, as the blog post says, is a > systemic problem, not a Leo exclusive, was a constant effort that made me > rethink if there was not something lost in the not so common places (like > the dynabook before the rise of operative systems[2] or Smalltalk instead of > popular languages) with some valuable lessons to start cross-pollination. > > [2] http://tkbr.ccsp.sfu.ca/dynabook/ > > As always, this list and community are a place to find food for thought. > > Cheers, > > Offray > > > > > On 14/09/15 07:56, Kent Tenney wrote: > > https://glyph.twistedmatrix.com/2015/09/software-you-can-use.html > > "Python has a big problem. While it’s easy and fun to produce software > in Python, it’s hard to produce software that people - especially > laypeople who are not professional software developers - can use." > > Seems to reflect issues that come up regarding Leo > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "leo-editor" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/leo-editor. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "leo-editor" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/leo-editor. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
