On Thursday, January 30, 2020 at 7:23:28 PM UTC-5, andyjim wrote: > > Definitely, Thomas, and thanks so much for your interest. What I recommend > as a starting point is to get one or more Zettelkasten programs yourself to > familiarize yourself with the concepts and also the sort of GUI that is > generally used (I am a very inadequate resource myself). Personally, I > want some enhancements to the GUI. > > The GUI will be the hard part, no doubt about it. A bad GUI is easy!
> https://zettelkasten.de/ is a general site on Zettelkasten, but the > authors have their own, called The Archive. Free. I have it but haven't > gone much into it as yet. > Most of the products seem to be MAC or linux only. I use Windows, though I sometimes run Linux in a virtual machine. > https://github.com/EFLS/zetteldeft is one for emacs (I don't have it) > https://takesmartnotes.com/ An entire book on the ideas. Under 'The > Book' on the homepage you can get the first chapter in pdf, which is really > an Intro, and does a great job of it. Well worth reading. > https://www.zettlr.com/ A writer produced this version. I have it but > haven't done much with it yet. Free. > https://roamresearch.com/ looks great but I think it's cloud-based, > subscription. One thing it has is two-way links. > > https://writingcooperative.com/zettelkasten-how-one-german-scholar-was-so-freakishly-productive-997e4e0ca125 > > <https://www.google.com/url?q=https%3A%2F%2Fwritingcooperative.com%2Fzettelkasten-how-one-german-scholar-was-so-freakishly-productive-997e4e0ca125&sa=D&sntz=1&usg=AFQjCNGaDjDbAjMGIG0rnvSv0bOUJKh0Yg> > > Article on the theory and practice > https://github.com/renerocksai/sublimeless_zk The guy that wrote the > plugin for Sublime wrote this to stand alone. Looks PDG to me, but he seems > to have abandoned it 2 yrs ago. Free, I have it. > > >From what I've seen so far, the idea is basically a wiki with enhancements. Enhancements may include name completion for links to other notes, retrieving groups of linked notes, and so on. I would be interested in adding several capabilities if they turn out to be feasible: 1. Full text search of the notes by a search engine. 2. Special processing based on certain semantic features in the notes, if they can be written with a bit of structure. 3. Including URLs to web pages in the links. 4. Including images in the notes in some fashion. For item 2, I'm thinking partly of the following. Although each note is usually written about as being about one thing, if you are thinking about how two things relate together, that in itself is a topic or idea. In my work on bookmark organization, when the system encountered one of these compound topics, it took it apart and linked to the other topics for each piece. This is one way to promote serendipidy. For example, I had a topic "Python", and a topic "Services". A page stored under the heading "Python And Services" would get linked to both "Python" and "Services", so a search for one would also get the other. I have found this pretty useful. Probably a good full-text search would accomplish this, but it will work better if the notes can be lightly structured. Could you say a little more about how your existing notes are organized and stored, and file formats if they are not all text? We'd want to ingest them with minimal hand effort if possible. I think only a couple of these will import, which is one reason I turned to > Leo, besides that I think Leo's capabilities for this kind of thing are > probably more robust, just need to be wrapped together in a neat package. > But what do I know? If you pursue this you will shortly be more of a > Zetteler than I currently am. My learning pace is slow. > Andy > > > On Wednesday, January 29, 2020 at 11:35:21 PM UTC-5, Thomas Passin wrote: >> >> >> >> On Wednesday, January 29, 2020 at 10:45:58 PM UTC-5, andyjim wrote: >>> >>> Many thanks to all. I've only just now got back to this thread and >>> gratified to see tips have kept coming in. It will take me awhile to check >>> all these out but it looks good indeed. >>> >>> I also want to put in a plug here if I may, for someone to undertake a >>> robust Zettelkasten plugin for Leo. I think Zettelkasten is the best >>> available idea for notes, and I think Leo may be capable of implementing it >>> better than anyone else has done (disclaimer: this is the relatively >>> uninformed opinion of a Leo newbie and a non-programmer as well). It seems >>> to me (again as a complete newbie) that Leo already utilizes some (maybe >>> all?) of the core principles of Zettelkasten, and more besides, that would >>> only enhance the concept. It could truly be a marvelous piece of >>> software. Wish I knew python. >>> >> >> I put a lot of time some years ago looking into how to get the most out >> of my browser bookmarks, and I arrived at some of the same principles as I >> now read about for a Zettelkaste. And I tackled some of the things that >> seem to be glossed over in the material I've seen on Zettelkastens. You >> can read a paper about the work here - >> >> >> http://conferences.idealliance.org/extreme/html/2003/Passin01/EML2003Passin01.html >> >> The user interface is much better now, but the underlying system is the >> same. Briefly, with a typical browser, you can save bookmarks in (virtual) >> folders. But the only information you can store are 1) the title of the >> page, and 2) the folder name that you create. Not much to go on. I wanted >> to get the most possible out of it. Some of the difficulties come from the >> size of a large collection (I have more than 20,000 bookmarks). You can't >> remember most of it, and you can't remember the folder names where you put >> things. Over time, you may get duplicates, and you will probably invent >> new folder names even though they may do the same job as the older ones. >> And you will probably end up with the same bookmark in several folders. >> How do you find things, and how do you find related pages? Oh, and the >> system needs to be very simple to use or it won't be used. >> >> Do these issues sound familiar? >> >> Well, my system is limited to bookmarks, and it has some limitations to >> work around the fact that you can't store data to the file system from a >> browser. OTOH, it doesn't need to use a database, and it runs in the >> browser. >> >> Why I'm bringing this up here is that from time to time I toy with ideas >> for generalizing it to go beyond bookmarks (you can already annotate >> bookmarks with the system, which is much like linking notes to web pages - >> trouble is, it's very clumsy at present). I could see implementing some >> variation in Leo. >> >> The real difficulty in coming up with a system like this is in making it >> work at a large scale; that and a good interface. With a Zettelkasten, you >> want to link a note to other related ones. But how do you find those other >> related notes? How do you work with tens of thousands or more of notes and >> find what you want? How can you design a user interface that will be >> clear, simple, and usable at that scale? How do you deal with many-to-many >> relationships between notes? How can you promote serenditious discovery? >> Those are really hard issues. >> >> @andyjim, would you be interested in exploring this area further? >> > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "leo-editor" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. 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