What I'm saying, Nadim, is that it's projection. Everything you say, you need to look in a mirror.
I haven't worked for Tor since 2007. SN On Wed, Aug 7, 2013 at 8:56 AM, Nadim Kobeissi <na...@nadim.cc> wrote: > On 2013-08-07, at 3:22 PM, Shava Nerad <shav...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > Forgive me, but I'd like to ask a question here. > > Tor is a tool that is undeniably, directly marketed toward activists in > high-risk environments. Tor's presentations at conferences centre around > how Tor obtains increased usage in Arab Spring countries that matches the > timeline of revolutionary action. It's incredibly direct. Tor's own > spokespeople encourage people in Iran, Egypt and so on to use Tor and only > Tor as the most secure tool for activist anonymity, and privacy. > > Now, we find out that the FBI has been sitting on an exploit since an > unknown amount of time that can compromise the Tor Browser Bundle, which is > currently the main way to download Tor and the only way to download Tor for > the average end-user, and is deploying it en-masse to the visitors of what > seems to be around half of all Tor hidden services, which have also been > compromised > > I've gotten quite some flak from certain people at Tor for supposedly > marketing Cryptocat to activists, which is not something I do, but that the > media did last year. We know for a fact that Tor does in fact market to > activists. And yet, I have a feeling that the flak towards Tor, for > something this incredibly huge, will be quite small, on this mailing list > and on other discussion forums, especially compared to the kind of vitriol > Cryptocat receives. > > I would like an explanation as to why this is the case. > > NK > > > > Forgive me but I would like to answer a question here. > > > > The reason, since you ask, Nadim, is that it is because you are a > contentious person who attacks people relentlessly who you feel are rivals, > whether they are Tor or Silent Circle, or anyone else in the landscape. > You go after them to wear them down, with some attitude that you are some > crusader for good, when in reality, you are just going after people to wear > them out with the same points over and over again because you want to be > seen as better than they are. It seems to be about ego and stamina. > > Sorry, Libtech, I have no idea why this was sent to the list and not to me > individually. > > Shava, > The amount of sheer, unfiltered anger and hatred in your email is really > messed up. But I'll answer it. > > Let me first clarify that I absolutely do not see Tor or Silent Circle as > a rival. Tor is anonymity software. Silent Circle is encrypted phone call > software for mobile phones. I make encrypted web chat software, which is > completely unrelated to Tor and only quite distantly related to Silent > Circle. It makes absolutely no sense for me to see those two as competitors. > > With that clarified, I'll answer your email, even though I don't think it > belongs on this list, but should have been sent to me privately. > > Yes, I was a relentless with Jacob. The reason I did this was simply to > try and show him what it feels like to be treated like this when you have a > security vulnerability. This is exactly how Jacob treats every project > around him when they're in a bad situation, when he's in a good mood. When > he's in a bad mood, he is incredibly abusive. > > I did not mean to attack Tor. But I sent critical responses to Jacob's > emails. I did this because the guy needs to learn a lesson about what it > feels like to be treated like this. Jacob has a problem. For years, I have > been abused in private and in public by Jacob regarding my work on > Cryptocat, in ways that are so underhanded that if I described them on this > list, you would not even believe me. He does this to *many projects*. You > obviously have no idea what I'm talking about, or you wouldn't have sent > this email. But many do, and they understand. I think Tor needs to very > urgently stop legitimizing someone like him. > > Tor reacted responsibly. Jacob reacted the way he usually does, except > with an additional small dash of professionalism due to the pressure. I > wanted to use this opportunity to give Jacob a taste of his own medicine > with the hope that he will understand what it feels like for him to treat > anyone in a weak situation the way he does. Notice that I stopped sending > emails when he did in fact politely concede to my concerns, and I I didn't > even go a tenth as far as he has done with me and other projects. > > > > > Vitriol is what you produce, Nadim, and so it is what you invite when > something erupts in your own vicinity. That's karma. Look what you are > laying in terms of land mines for when something comes up for your own > stuff? Think about it. You are being relentless, and you are taking time > away from emergency response from people who are strapped for time right > now. It's not sane. > > You're saying that it's normal for people to expect "land mines" when > "something comes up with [their] own stuff". Well, this is exactly what > happened here. I've been abused professionally and personally by Jacob for > years. I privately, politely, correctly complained to Tor but was snubbed > off quite unceremoniously. So I decided to treat him the way he treats > smaller projects to try and show him what it felt like. I repeat: I didn't > even go a tenth as far as he does (most of his vitriol is not public), and > here I am honestly explaining things to you. To be honest, I feel your > email is more vitriolic than everything I've said to Jacob on this mailing > list for the past week combined. > > And yes, this drains my time too. Including this email; I don't understand > how you found the time to write it yourself. > > Your email almost reads like hate mail, and I can't think of a reason > you'd send it in public instead of to me directly. Do you still work for > Tor? > > NK > > > > > Everyone here observes this, so it's just not an ad hominem, and you ask > for an answer so I can't possibly be called on for answering the question. > And I'm sure there are others here who will, in the interest of peer > counseling, tell you that your attitude is not helping you. You will find > that if you learn to mellow out and ratchet down a bit, you will get more > out of the community back in return. > > > > And this is why you get no respect from the community for CryptoCat -- > because you extend no respect to the people in your same space. You get > back what you give. This is a basic law of the universe. > > > > Now that I have answered your original question, will you please stop > talking in circles? I suspect a great many people are tired of it, and it > is not serving anyone in the long term. It does not serve"justice," nor > "the users," nor the future of your project, and I do not think it is not > serving your reputation. > > > > Thank you. > > > > yrs, > > -- > > > > Shava Nerad > > shav...@gmail.com > > -- > > Liberationtech list is public and archives are searchable on Google. Too > many emails? Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password by emailing > moderator at compa...@stanford.edu or changing your settings at > https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech > > > -- > Liberationtech list is public and archives are searchable on Google. Too > many emails? Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password by emailing > moderator at compa...@stanford.edu or changing your settings at > https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech > -- Shava Nerad shav...@gmail.com
-- Liberationtech list is public and archives are searchable on Google. Too many emails? Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password by emailing moderator at compa...@stanford.edu or changing your settings at https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech
