Bringing in more people actually INTERESTED in changing their viewpoints with regard to self-sovereignty is one thing, watering down the label until it basically means "somewhat socially-tolerant, but economically conservative" is quite another. Referring to Goldberg as a libertarian without mentioning that he favors a lot of positions inconsistent and counter to the non-initiation of force concept, as Eric has done (repeatedly with other conservatives) is not about a big tent or persuading others to take another look at our way of doing things. It's a rejection of the core philosophy of self-ownership in favor of putting big numbers up on the scoreboard. What good is winning if you lose track of the reason you're fighting in the first place?
There is a gigantic world of difference between claiming someone is a libertarian (which would indicate consistent and steadfast application of the N.A.P./Z.A.P. and a belief in self-sovereignty) vs. claiming someone has some strong libertarian views in CERTAIN areas. For instance, I've known Ward Connerly for years. He is an interesting man with strong conservative views in CERTAIN areas and strong libertarian views in CERTAIN areas. He is closer to libertarianism than conservatism these days, but he is not yet a convert. I respect the man to no end, but I also respect the philosophy to which I adhere. When he, or if he is ready, I'll then start calling him a libertarian. Until then, I still believe that the word stands for something more important than putting up big numbers on that scoreboard. Further, I've read enough of Goldberg's work in the past to know he has some strong libertarian views in CERTAIN areas. When I was working with Mr. Connerly on the Racial Privacy Initiative, Goldberg supported our attempts to get government out of the expensive and quite arbitrary business of classifying Americans by perceived "racial" classification. That was quite libertarian of him. But that is one issue, not the totality of the man's views. Claiming he is a libertarian without caveat is incorrect and subverts the philosophy. I'll break it down further: Goldberg favors, and quite rabidly back in day, wars of intervention (fought with other people's blood, of course, no need get dirty himself) that have now saddled us (and our children) with billions and billions of dollars in debt. He is also a defender of the PATRIOT Act. I don't find such activities to be consistent with the principle of non-initiation of force and self-sovereignty rights. You may feel differently. You may also believe in the Easter Bunny. That's your decision. Goldberg voted for Bush (instead of a libertarian candidate), who brought us the wonders of that PATRIOT Act, attempted to suspend attorney-client privilege, TSA and other forms of domestic surveillance and tracking, and the Department of Homeland Security, a half-trillion dollar medicare subsidy, among other great Big Government Conservative ideas. That was Clueless Jonah's warning (one I did not need by the way). Then, he voted for him again. Now we have National ID Cards (still in the works via REAL ID Act regulatory implementation), torture scandals in Afghanistan, Guantanamo Bay and Iraq, and a pending war with Iran and Syria. Yeah, great big, wonderful libertarian stuff. While Goldberg criticizes Bush on economic issues, he defends him with regard to this unnecessary war and his trampling of the Bill of Rights, like any good conservative Republican would do. That may be libertarianism to you, but I see it differently. Small government beliefs in one area and big government apologia in another doesn't make one a libertarian. Unless the word is meaningless, which in that case would make Ted Kennedy a libertarian as well. I certainly hope that isn't the future of libertarianism. Since you are echoing Eric's sentiments, will you also second his endorsement of Kerry's statement about Bush being a "radical extremist libertarian" - see Eric's subject line here (Kerry was right; Bush is a "radical extremist libertarian"): <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Libertarian/message/30812> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Libertarian/message/30812 And will you also endorse Eric's statement that "We have now the most libertarian President possibly in the history of the United States, and the Libertarian Party Libertarians just yawn." <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Libertarian/message/30293> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Libertarian/message/30293 If you are going to go for big tent, it doesn't get any bigger than including our big government president, who Jonah Goldberg supports and defends when it comes to trampling the Bill of Rights and waging big, expensive wars. Eric would certainly back you up on that one. __________________________________________________________________ James Landrith <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [EMAIL PROTECTED] cell: 703-593-2065 * fax: 760-875-8547 AIM: jlnales * ICQ: 148600159 MSN and Yahoo! Messenger: jlandrith Taking the Gloves Off - <http://www.jameslandrith.com> http://www.jameslandrith.com The Multiracial Activist - <http://www.multiracial.com> http://www.multiracial.com The Abolitionist Examiner - <http://www.multiracial.com/abolitionist/> http://www.multiracial.com/abolitionist/ __________________________________________________________________ _____ From: [email protected] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Bruce Cohen Sent: Friday, October 21, 2005 3:58 PM To: [email protected] Subject: RE: [Libertarian] LRPR: Brillant NR Editorial mentions Libertarians Others might disagree. Jonah Goldberg is a Libertarian in MY book. Anyway, our pond is far too small, with too few fish in it. I'm more than happy to include those who wish to be included. Folks labeling themselves as Libertarians are the most warm of warm prospects. These are people we ought to cultivate. Where we disagree, we have a much better chance to persuade them from the inside, than the outside. PS What is a 'full blown NIF Libertarian'? Who gets to define this for the rest of the Libertarian world, anyway? --- James Landrith <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > CORRECTION to the Peanut Gallery: Jonah Goldberg has > SOME libertarian views, but is not a full-blown, > non-initiation of force libertarian. Bruce Cohen 949 813-8001 866 OC Bruce - Toll Free 866 622-7823 - Toll Free WWW.GetBruce.Com Libertarian for US Congress All California Brokerage Real Estate [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Fair play? Video games influencing politics. 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