I do not believe it refutes Marx. I certainly believe there should be some earnings on borrowed money, the question only is how much. Anna ----- Original Message ----- From: gclark809 To: [email protected] Sent: Thursday, November 17, 2005 7:53 PM Subject: [Libertarian] Re: the truth....
I have no idea what is meant here by "exploitation" but if it is Marx's concept, that was demolished in 1890! See: http://www.econlib.org/library/BohmBawerk/bbCI.html It starts: "BOOK VI THE EXPLOITATION THEORY ----------------------- Book VI, Chapter I Historical Survey We come now to that remarkable theory the enunciation of which, if not the most agreeable among the scientific events of our century, certainly promises to be one of the most serious in its consequences. It stood at the cradle of modern Socialism and has grown up along with it; and to-day it forms the theoretical centre around which move the forces of attack and defence in the struggle of organising human society. VI.I.1 This theory has as yet no short distinctive name. If I were to give it one from a characteristic of its chief professors, I should call it the Socialist theory of interest. If I were to try to indicate by the name the theoretic purport of the doctrine itself,-which to my mind would be more appropriate,-no name seems more suitable than that of the Exploitation theory. This accordingly is the name I shall use in the sequel. Condensed into a few sentences, the essence of the theory may be provisionally put thus. VI.I.2 All goods that have value are the product of human labour, and indeed, economically considered, are exclusively the product of human labour. The labourers, however, do not retain the whole product which they alone have produced; for the capitalists take advantage of their command over the indispensable means of production, as secured to them by the institution of private property, to secure to themselves a part of the labourers' product. The means of doing so are supplied by the wage contract, in which the labourers are compelled by hunger to sell their labour-power to the capitalists for a part of what they, the labourers, produce, while the remainder of the product falls as profit into the hands of the capitalists, without any exertion on their part. Interest is thus a portion of the product of other people's labour, obtained by exploiting the necessitous condition of the labourer." He goes on to completely refute the "labor theory" of value and Marx's idea of the "exploitation of the "working class." --- In [email protected], "Anna" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Yes, but how do you prevent exploitation of the needy ones? One person may have 10 kids to support, another 1. > When they apply for the job, the pay offered may be good enough for a single kid parent, but not the other parent. > Would you say then the choice of having so many kids means that a person chooses to be poorer? > Anna > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Paul > To: [email protected] > Sent: Thursday, November 17, 2005 4:59 PM > Subject: [Libertarian] Re: the truth.... > > > WE don't decide. THEY do. If they apply for a job and are offered a > job, they can negotiate with the business what their salary is worth > based on their skills, education, and experience. If the business > isn't offering what they want, they don't have to take it. They can > apply somewhere else. If they accept the offer, they are agreeing > that this is the value of their labor. > > The market and free will determine the value. > > > > --- In [email protected], "Anna" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > Mark, some people may need a job, any job and this gives a chance > for abuse by employers. > > So my question was, how we decide the values and worth? > > > > Anna > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: mark robert > > To: [email protected] > > Sent: Thursday, November 17, 2005 9:07 AM > > Subject: RE: [Libertarian] Re: the truth.... > > > > > > Ana, > > > > > > > > You need to go ask the two who are engaged in the business > > relationship. I assume you will be told "yes". Or save yourself > > the effort and deduce your answer by observing their actions - if > > it's not just, why would we be voluntarily doing it? > > > > > > > > -Mark > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > This is the whole issue: > > Is the physical work worth more than thinking or doing deals? > > The same? > > You claim that the guy who does the thinking deserves to get > > more. > > This means that the worker's effort in building the house is > > worth less than the guy's who did not lift a finger doing the > > construction job. > > Is it just? > > Anna > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > ForumWebSiteAt http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Libertarian > > > > > > > > SPONSORED LINKS E government Libertarian E government strategy > > Libertarian party E government procurement > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------ > > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS > > > > a.. 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