My argument is that the poor, sick, elderly, and handicapped would have more help without government welfare programs than with it. You asked what would be done with them, and I answered you.
--- In [email protected], "Anna" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Basically, you are against the welfare. What is your argument? > Anna > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Paul > To: [email protected] > Sent: Friday, November 18, 2005 8:00 AM > Subject: [Libertarian] Re: the truth.... > > > The poor, elderly, and infirmed would have more help under a > completely free market system than they do with the government system > now. They'd get help from friends, family, neighbors, their church, > private charities, and others who want to help. And unlike the money > the government collects, the vast majority would make it to those in > need, the care given would be by people who genuinely care about the > well-being of those in need, and nobody would be robbed to pay for it > so there would be no animosity towards them. > > > --- In [email protected], "Anna" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > Ok, but what will you do then about the poor and the parasites? If > hungry, they will be dangerous. > > Anna > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Paul > > To: [email protected] > > Sent: Thursday, November 17, 2005 10:54 PM > > Subject: [Libertarian] Re: the truth.... > > > > > > There is no such thing as "free" medical care. It costs. I'll head > > you off before you get to the direction you're going. NOBODY is owed > > anything...not food....not shelter...not medical care...not anything > > simply based on their needs. > > > > Medical care should be unhampered by government. People should be > > free to take whatever medicines they choose if they've obtained them > > honestly. Anyone should be able to offer medical help to those in > > need regardless of whether or not they've been certified by the > > government or the AMA to do so. > > > > The FDA should be completely abolished. > > > > With government completely out of the medical business (medicare, > > medicaid, regulations on insurance companies, etc), the prices would > > fall through the floor, and even the most poor would be able to afford > > healthcare when in need. Though we'd have a lot less poor people if > > this happened because we'd have more prosperity and more jobs. > > > > Socialism is always a failure. The closer you get to socialism the > > worse off you are. Socialized medicine is a nightmare. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In [email protected], "Anna" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > Ok, but let's talk now about medical care. Should it be free? > > > Anna > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Paul > > > To: [email protected] > > > Sent: Thursday, November 17, 2005 7:26 PM > > > Subject: [Libertarian] Re: the truth.... > > > > > > > > > The number of kids they have is irrelevant. If the pay is not > what > > > they are willing to accept, they don't have to accept it. If they > > > earn enough to support one child and they have 10, perhaps > they should > > > contact an adoption agency. In either case it has absolutely > nothing > > > to do with what their labor is worth. If I own a company and > I offer > > > too little for a job, I won't find any qualified people to > fill the > > > position. If I offer more, I'll be able to pick and choose whom I > > > want because I'll have an abundant source of candidates. If I > find 2 > > > qualified people to fill a job and one of them has one child > and the > > > other has 10 children, it has nothing to do with the job. I > will see > > > which of them is willing to take what I'm offering. If one > will not > > > because he has 10 kids and he can't support them with the > salary I'm > > > offering, I'll hire the guy who will take what I'm offering. > > > > > > There has been no force, coercion, theft, fraud, or harm to > anyone in > > > any way. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In [email protected], "Anna" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > > > Yes, but how do you prevent exploitation of the needy ones? One > > > person may have 10 kids to support, another 1. > > > > When they apply for the job, the pay offered may be good > enough > > > for a single kid parent, but not the other parent. > > > > Would you say then the choice of having so many kids means > that a > > > person chooses to be poorer? > > > > Anna > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: Paul > > > > To: [email protected] > > > > Sent: Thursday, November 17, 2005 4:59 PM > > > > Subject: [Libertarian] Re: the truth.... > > > > > > > > > > > > WE don't decide. THEY do. If they apply for a job and are > > offered a > > > > job, they can negotiate with the business what their salary is > > worth > > > > based on their skills, education, and experience. If the > business > > > > isn't offering what they want, they don't have to take it. > > They can > > > > apply somewhere else. If they accept the offer, they are > agreeing > > > > that this is the value of their labor. > > > > > > > > The market and free will determine the value. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In [email protected], "Anna" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Mark, some people may need a job, any job and this gives a > > chance > > > > for abuse by employers. > > > > > So my question was, how we decide the values and worth? > > > > > > > > > > Anna > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > From: mark robert > > > > > To: [email protected] > > > > > Sent: Thursday, November 17, 2005 9:07 AM > > > > > Subject: RE: [Libertarian] Re: the truth.... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ana, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You need to go ask the two who are engaged in the business > > > > > relationship. I assume you will be told "yes". Or save > > yourself > > > > > the effort and deduce your answer by observing their > > actions - if > > > > > it's not just, why would we be voluntarily doing it? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -Mark > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > > > > > > > This is the whole issue: > > > > > Is the physical work worth more than thinking or > doing deals? > > > > > The same? > > > > > You claim that the guy who does the thinking deserves > to get > > > > > more. > > > > > This means that the worker's effort in building the > house is > > > > > worth less than the guy's who did not lift a finger > doing the > > > > > construction job. > > > > > Is it just? > > > > > Anna > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ForumWebSiteAt http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Libertarian > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > SPONSORED LINKS E government Libertarian E government > > strategy > > > > > Libertarian party E government procurement > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS > > > > > > > > > > a.. Visit your group "Libertarian" on the web. > > > > > > > > > > b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > > > > > c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! > > Terms of > > > > Service. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ForumWebSiteAt http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Libertarian > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > SPONSORED LINKS E government Libertarian E government > strategy > > > > Libertarian party E government procurement > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS > > > > > > > > a.. 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