Discussion of who iz, or iz not, a TRUE 'libertarian' is counter productive,imo. :(
Discussion of libertarianISM, pro/con, can be edifying :) Attack/support messages, NOT messengers, in THIS forum! -Terry Liberty Parker http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Libertarian --- In [email protected], "mark robert" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Anna, > > > > You have: > > 1) Used "citizen" to describe a fetus; > > 2) called abortion a crime / recommended its prohibition; > > 3) advised 24/7 surveillance of all pregnant women; > > 4) advised "meta-law"; > > 5) implied agreement with many new "child abuse" laws against > pregnant women for ANY less-than-perfectly-healthy behavior; > > 6) advised new taxes to pay for it; > > 7) given full rights to the dead; > > 8) done it all on a Libertarian forum; > > 9) tried to claim Libertarian status for yourself. > > > > Keep going. You're doing fine. Don't let me interfere. > > > > -Mark > > > > _____ > > > > Mark, why to exempt un unborn , but capable of surviving on its > own outside the womb fetus, from the other laws dealing with > murder? > You must agree, that even the most libertarian society will have > to have some laws protecting citizens from crimes , such as > murder or theft. > [and prisons too]. The only acceptable justification has been > always a self defense argument or an accident. > If mother's life is endangered by her pregnancy, sure- she > should be allowed to kill her baby at any time. But, allowing to > abort 6 month old fetuses because a person refuses > responsibility, is akin to a permission to commit a crime. > To solve this situation, there would have to be special homes > for pregnant women, especially if they decide to give their > babies later for adoption. This is of course, a social program. > But for a health of society, I think important. You may of course > believe, that it would require a forceful donation from you, and > is contrary to your ideology. But then, how would you propose to > solve the problem of late term abortions and killing of unwanted > babies after the birth? > It would be allowed, or? > Anna > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: mark robert > To: [email protected] > Sent: Thursday, November 24, 2005 10:17 PM > Subject: RE: objective vs subjective Re: [Libertarian] Re: > Socialism/Capitalism of the Author > > > Anna, > > > > You seem to imply that abortion prohibition would be a move > away > from barbarism and toward civility. Surely you realize that all > changes in society have not been a move in that direction. > Including abortion prohibition along side obvious civil > advancements is only a transparent attempt to color it white. > > > > Consider how abortion prohibition would be a move TOWARD > barbarism. WHAT IF society decides to give the unborn the same > rights as born persons? THEN it's not only appropriate to > jail/execute a mother for aborting, but also for treating her > own > body with anything less than perfect health. A mother could be > charged with the crime of violating the "rights" of her unborn > ("child" abuse) by engaging in any behavior that is less than > perfectly healthy. After all, she is "forcing" "harm" on a > non-consenting other. The only way to insure that the rights of > the unborn are not going to be violated is to put 24/7 > surveillance on every pregnant woman. Maybe she goes past-due > and > the doc decides the baby wants out and she is not pushing hard > enough. Will she be charged with illegal confinement? I could > predict maybe a few dozen other new and exciting offenses > against > the rights of the unborn that prosecutors would be able to > pursue. If you think I'm exaggerating the length of the > government's strong arm, where have you been? Show me a law the > gov has NOT abused with over-enforcement. Give gov an inch and > they ALWAYS take the mile. Do you realize the ramifications of > this new prohibition? > > > > As Phil Donahue used to ask: "is this the kind of world you > want"? Give fetuses "individual" rights and you end up with a > horribly barbaric future. All "pro-life" women should be very > careful what they ask for - in case they might get it. Society > either allows mothers to abort millions of unborns OR > jails/kills > millions of women. I have to admit, I am partial to women. > > > > -Mark > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/KlSolB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> ForumWebSiteAt http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Libertarian Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Libertarian/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
