And you have created a society where killing unborn babies up to the moment of their birth would be perfectly acceptable. If this is a proof of your libertarian attitude, then I am glad that I am not a part of it. A fetus becomes a citizen the moment his brain is finished and he becomes an individual. An unborn fetus is not a subhuman, nor animal [ worm according to your description] and not a slave, even if it is within the body of another person. Individual can be described as an entity possessing alive mind.
I do not believe that to be libertarian means to be pro- murder, so I do not accept your claim that you are a libertarian, rather a barbarian.. Anna ----- Original Message ----- From: mark robert To: [email protected] Sent: Friday, November 25, 2005 9:04 AM Subject: RE: objective vs subjective Re: [Libertarian] Re: Socialism/Capitalism of the Author Anna, You have: 1) Used "citizen" to describe a fetus; 2) called abortion a crime / recommended its prohibition; 3) advised 24/7 surveillance of all pregnant women; 4) advised "meta-law"; 5) implied agreement with many new "child abuse" laws against pregnant women for ANY less-than-perfectly-healthy behavior; 6) advised new taxes to pay for it; 7) given full rights to the dead; 8) done it all on a Libertarian forum; 9) tried to claim Libertarian status for yourself. Keep going. You're doing fine. Don't let me interfere. -Mark _____ Mark, why to exempt un unborn , but capable of surviving on its own outside the womb fetus, from the other laws dealing with murder? You must agree, that even the most libertarian society will have to have some laws protecting citizens from crimes , such as murder or theft. [and prisons too]. The only acceptable justification has been always a self defense argument or an accident. If mother's life is endangered by her pregnancy, sure- she should be allowed to kill her baby at any time. But, allowing to abort 6 month old fetuses because a person refuses responsibility, is akin to a permission to commit a crime. To solve this situation, there would have to be special homes for pregnant women, especially if they decide to give their babies later for adoption. This is of course, a social program. But for a health of society, I think important. You may of course believe, that it would require a forceful donation from you, and is contrary to your ideology. But then, how would you propose to solve the problem of late term abortions and killing of unwanted babies after the birth? It would be allowed, or? Anna ----- Original Message ----- From: mark robert To: [email protected] Sent: Thursday, November 24, 2005 10:17 PM Subject: RE: objective vs subjective Re: [Libertarian] Re: Socialism/Capitalism of the Author Anna, You seem to imply that abortion prohibition would be a move away from barbarism and toward civility. Surely you realize that all changes in society have not been a move in that direction. Including abortion prohibition along side obvious civil advancements is only a transparent attempt to color it white. Consider how abortion prohibition would be a move TOWARD barbarism. WHAT IF society decides to give the unborn the same rights as born persons? THEN it's not only appropriate to jail/execute a mother for aborting, but also for treating her own body with anything less than perfect health. A mother could be charged with the crime of violating the "rights" of her unborn ("child" abuse) by engaging in any behavior that is less than perfectly healthy. After all, she is "forcing" "harm" on a non-consenting other. The only way to insure that the rights of the unborn are not going to be violated is to put 24/7 surveillance on every pregnant woman. Maybe she goes past-due and the doc decides the baby wants out and she is not pushing hard enough. Will she be charged with illegal confinement? I could predict maybe a few dozen other new and exciting offenses against the rights of the unborn that prosecutors would be able to pursue. If you think I'm exaggerating the length of the government's strong arm, where have you been? Show me a law the gov has NOT abused with over-enforcement. Give gov an inch and they ALWAYS take the mile. Do you realize the ramifications of this new prohibition? As Phil Donahue used to ask: "is this the kind of world you want"? Give fetuses "individual" rights and you end up with a horribly barbaric future. All "pro-life" women should be very careful what they ask for - in case they might get it. Society either allows mothers to abort millions of unborns OR jails/kills millions of women. I have to admit, I am partial to women. -Mark _____ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ForumWebSiteAt http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Libertarian ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS a.. Visit your group "Libertarian" on the web. b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! 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