--- In [email protected], <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Then how do you propose to take from people what is theirs by the right of property?
I don't. > On this point you are very very very wrong. This a personal property issue. It has everything to do with property rights. The claim that there is collective ownership of the markets which are created from nothing by the participants only is contrary to the idea of property rights. If property rights exist they exist as an extension of the right to life. the right to life states that I own my life. If I own my life then by extension I own my body which is the vessel of my life. I become in effect the God of my body (a very nice and applicable phrase). If I own my life and my body, then those things that I acquire by using my time (the measure of my life) and my talents and abilities (the attributes of my body) are mine by the right to life and may be called the Right to property. Since those things that i acquire by using my life are extensions of my life and my rights to life and to my body are absolute, then by extension those things that I acquire are mine by absolute right - the Right of Property. Since my right to property is absolute (and that has been shown), an infringement upon that right become an act of aggression upon me and upon my rights. To charge a tarrif on my property is to make an infringement upon my rights because my right to property is an absolute. I have never questioned the fact that you own your property outright or that your property is an extension of yourself. I've said that your rights don't incude bringing goods into AMERICA to sell them. You can still own them. But if you want to import goods you've purchased in another country into America for the purpose of selling them, you must pay for the privilege. This has no bearing on your ownership and does not contradict your ownership. In fact it has nothing whatsoever to do with your ownership. It has to do with the ownership of "access" to the American markets by the American people. Your laughable claim that markets are "created from nothing by the participants only" is entirely false and is absolutely untenable. Nor is paying to sell your goods in someone else's markets "contrary to the idea of property rights". > All markets everywhere are temporary creations of buyer(s) and seller(s). Governemnts do not create them unless they are buyers or sellers. You do not create them except to the extent that you buy and sell. What I create out of nothing (meaning it was not there before) along with others, belongs to me and those others wholely. Not in any way to any uninvolved third party such as the rest of the American people, the US Government or the Mafia or any other third party. No matter how many times you repeat your claim of markets being temporary creations from nothing only involving the buyer and seller it won't be correct. You have nothing to back this claim. I do have something to back mine. I have actual borders, the U.S. Constitution, and the libertarian concept of defending the contracts and property rights of people and groups of people from trespass or theft. The borders of America exist, and if you want to bring goods from outside America to sell inside of America, you must pay for the privilege of bringing the goods over the border. Nobody is forcing you to buy the goods, or to import them. If you make a choice to import them, you are willingly making a choice to pay for access to the American markets. Let's say America doesn't own the markets. Fine. It does own ACCESS to the markets. If you want to get to the market, you've got to cross the border. The border is owned by the American people and you've got to pay a toll if you want to cross it. I don't care how you want to look at it. You can call it a toll, a ticket to get on the ride, a tax, or anything else as long as you pay it because if you don't, YOU ARE INITIATING FORCE against the American people including me. > > No you have not. Because you keep avoiding the property issue. It is not a red herring, a distraction, or an unrelated subject. It is the absolute rock bottom issue of what we are talking about. Nope. It has nothing to do with personal property ownership. I have never once claimed that you don't own your property exclusively. I've just said that if you want to have access to the America markets, you must pay for the PRIVILEGE. This has nothing to do with whether or not you own the property. If you buy property and want to sell it within Germany, and Germany doesn't want to allow you to sell goods in their country, you have not been wronged. You still own your property. You just can't sell it inside of Germany. > Actually Rabitt has continuously come up with better than you, day after day post after post and point after point. > > BWS > Only in your imagination. ForumWebSiteAt http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Libertarian Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Libertarian/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
