Jim, you are right about it applying to more than just govt, if I'm correct in my understanding of what you said below.
An underlying principle in human action is an innate `physical aggression truce' which is also the underlying principle for UNIVERSAL libertarianism. PleaseSee: What's at the Heart of What Libertarians are Selling? at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Libertarian/message/30419 This truce gives `self-ownership' (exclusive right to determine use and disposition) by each individual person an essential material protection. That can also be phrased as: Reciprocal Physical Comprehensive Autonomy for each and every person. AlsoSee FlashAnimationAt- http://www.isil.org/resources/introduction.html Universal liberty's underlying 'physical aggression truce' principle (aka NAP/ZAP and so on) thus accommodates a just and broad array of choices by `self owning' free moral agents, except for the INITIATION, or credible threat of initiation, of physical force against the person or justly held possessions of another (note: the ban on these uses of physical force does NOT preclude other uses) see: Your Freedom & the Rights of Others at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Libertarian/message/22990 So, what would morally justify a person INITIATING, or doing a credible threat to initiate, physical force against the person or justly held possessions of another; AND, why should this `truce' EXCEPTION be allowable over the truce exceptions that may be wanted by someone else? Why would any truce violation be justified? -Terry Liberty Parker 'Real world' experiment in LIBERTARIAN community became famous at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LibertyProspects/message/2569 --- In [email protected], Jim Syler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > On Mar 27, 2006, at 7:07 PM, Cory Nott wrote: > > > Paul Ireland is not a typical example of someone who upholds the NAP. > > Besides, the NAP is a political statement and applies to the legal use > > of force. If Mr. Ireland decides to beat up Mr. Parker, it is a > > personal matter and if Mr. Ireland is in the wrong, he'll have to > > answer for it. That is unlike our political process in which those who > > vote for aggression in order to take away property or liberty have no > > accountability. > > I've heard, again and again, NAP advanced as a complete, coherent > system of morality, both personal and political. Perhaps I've > misunderstood, but NAP seems to be how many (most) NAPsters believe > that individual people, as well as political systems, should behave. > > > I've known many people of all political persuasions. The idea that > > those who support non-aggression are easily more corruptable than > > those who don't is just ridiculous. > > I said no such thing. Please read more carefully. I said that they were > just as easily corruptible, if not possibly more so (not "easily more > so"). This is perhaps an exaggeration on my part. But I do believe that > NAP, as a vastly oversimplified political philosophy, could and would > be corrupted in its use by just such justifications as Mr. Ireland used > if it ever came into vogue. Dogmatism of any stripe tends to be easily > corruptible, in my opinion. > > > While everyone loves power, libertarians are aware that they would > > fall prey to the same issues and once in power would quickly move to > > minimize the ability to be corrupt by enacting term limits and putting > > the country back on solid Constitutional ground such that even the > > most corrupt President could do little in the way of harming the > > country. Everyone else would be more likely to slide down the path to > > totalitarianism if the powers that controlled the state at least > > agreed with their values to start with. > > Umm...Constitutional? Isn't the Constitution an initiation of force? > Isn't any government an initiation of force? > > > > Jim Syler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > HAH! I must laugh. And laugh. > > > > I don't care about the conflict. I don't care about Mr. Ireland, or Mr. > > Parker. But this is an absolutely superb demonstration of something > > I've been saying ('tho I don't know if I've done so publicly, for those > > that would know) for years: The non-aggression principle is as easily > > corruptible as any other political theory, if not more so. If NAPsters > > ruled the world, they would find excuses (like this) for whatever > > violence they would wish to inflict. > > > > > > On Mar 27, 2006, at 1:30 PM, Terry L Parker wrote: > > > >> Ok, as per suggestion, here it is again WITH full header... > >> > >> btw, I don't consider this as 'infighting' but more like education > >> > >> --- In [email protected], Terry L Parker <txliberty@> > >> wrote: > >>> > >>> This reply to your below included e-mail, Paul T Ireland, is copied > >> to both Yahoo and the Libertarian YahooGroup forum so that there is a > >> public record of your threat of physical assault which is not your > >> first against me. > >>> > >>> I do NOT invite you to a physical altercation with me. > >>> > >>> I do not believe that you are competently percieving reality in > >> this matter as I have never agreed to your demands that I relinquish > >> ANY of the exercise of my Yahoo recognized ownership rights to > >> moderate the Libertarian forum. > >>> > >>> Your threats of physical violence will not extort me out of my > >> ownership rights. Your seeming inability to grasp this reality and > >> to grossly distort representations of to what I have or have not > >> agreed is becoming tragic, imo. > >>> > >>> Paul T Ireland, have you considered what this part of your PUBLIC > >> record will do to your political career? > >>> > >>> > >>> -Terry Liberty Parker > >>> Owner/moderator, > >>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Libertarian > >>> > >>> > >>> > >> > >> > >> > >> From Paul Mon Mar 27 09:34:22 2006 > >> X-Apparently-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] via 68.142.207.237; Mon, 27 Mar > >> 2006 09:35:05 -0800 > >> X-Originating-IP: [216.155.203.223] > >> Return-Path: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >> Authentication-Results: mta322.mail.scd.yahoo.com > >> from=yahoogroups.com; domainkeys=pass (ok) > >> Received: from 216.155.203.223 (HELO n3a.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com) > >> (216.155.203.223) by mta322.mail.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; Mon, 27 Mar > >> 2006 09:35:05 -0800 > >> Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys > >> DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=lima; > >> d=yahoogroups.com; > >> b=JTg8CJEGTrMUud4jNDhLc+vh8N4eqUu56gyD9G5K/MA6BykPwxkcHMcwc0hoUZO6bf8h > >> 04pYs/ZePjK0BqoShWrvEb5hB5BZQtHcFEg/BOU8l6SUyhkhwKRJi6DmCm2y; > >> Received: from [216.155.201.65] by n3.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com with > >> NNFMP; 27 Mar 2006 17:34:23 -0000 > >> Received: from [66.218.69.5] by t2.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com with NNFMP; > >> 27 Mar 2006 17:34:23 -0000 > >> Received: from [66.218.66.75] by t5.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; > >> 27 Mar 2006 17:34:23 -0000 > >> Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2006 17:34:22 -0000 > >> From: "Paul" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Add to Address Book Add Mobile > >> Alert > >> Yahoo! DomainKeys has confirmed that this message was sent by > >> yahoogroups.com. Learn more > >> To: "Terry L Parker" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >> Subject: STOP EDITING MY POSTS!!! > >> Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 > >> MIME-Version: 1.0 > >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" > >> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > >> X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster > >> X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 65.211.249.105 > >> X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose > >> Sender: [email protected] > >> Content-Length: 624 > >> > >> > >> You may allow or disallow my posts. You MAY NOT > >> edit them to your own > >> pleasing and attribute them to me. I don't care > >> if 99 out of 100 of > >> my posts are blocked. Do NOT edit them. You do > >> NOT have a right to > >> do that and if you do it anyway, you are > >> committing aggression against > >> me. You DO NOT have the right to edit my posts > >> and nothing you say > >> about being a group "owner" changes that. > >> > >> We've been through this before. I thought you > >> had learned your lesson? > >> > >> What must I do to get you to stop using > >> aggression against me? Do I > >> really have to beat you so badly, you are unable > >> to do it anymore? > >> I'm not asking you to stop bullying people or > >> even censoring them. > >> I'm not even asking you to stop doing that to me. > >> Just that you stop > >> replacing my words with your own and attributing > >> them to me. > >> > >> If you won't stop doing this, I genuinely will go > >> to your home and > >> harm you physically in my own defense. I'd > >> really like to avoid this. > >> I'd like you to start acting reasonably and > >> responsibly. Please stop > >> your aggression against me before I am forced to > >> use aggression > >> against you. I swear to god Terry, if you don't > >> stop this nonsense, I > >> will beat you so badly, I doubt you'll be > >> physically able to edit any > >> posts again. > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> ForumWebSiteAt http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Libertarian > >> Yahoo! Groups Links > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > -- > > Genius/Idiot: Musings of an itinerant philosopher > > http://homepage.mac.com/calion/blog > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > ForumWebSiteAt http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Libertarian > > > > > > > > SPONSORED LINKS > > Libertarian English language Political parties > > American politics > > > > --------------------------------- > > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS > > > > > > Visit your group "Libertarian" on the web. > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of > > Service. > > > > > > --------------------------------- > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > ForumWebSiteAt http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Libertarian > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > "If this were a dictatorship, it'd be a heck of a lot easier...just as > long as I'm the dictator..." > --George W. Bush, Dec 18, 2000, during his first trip to Washington as > President-Elect > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > ForumWebSiteAt http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Libertarian Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Libertarian/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
