No Mark, you are playing games with words.
I never said that this depressed AMBITION. Of COURSE it does.
I replied to your question about aid depressing the economy of the AREA and
of the people on the reservation.
Aid has never hurt the economy of this area because the economy of this area
was NEVER good to BEGIN WITH. These people were only settled here because no
one ELSE wanted it.
You seem to believe that your theory is a one size tits all. It is not. You
seem to think it works in every situation. It works FINE in Newark NJ. You
make it difficult to obtain aid for any period of time and people will sweep
streets if they have to, right? In the Southwest, especially southeastern
Utah, there ARE no street sweeping jobs. Even the most menial work is
already claimed my a tightly woven group of LDS...Later Day
Saints...Mormons.
Picture this Mark...Brigham Young believed to be a prophet. He sends a few
hundred Mormons down to the southeast corner of Utah where there are no
roads, where the railroad NEVER reached, where there is not enough water to
live on. They are sent so that, when he discusses terms for statehood, he
can claim that this area is a settled part of Utah and not Colorado NM or
Az.
They arrive, and have an almost impossible job of farming and ranching. In
the MEAN TIME the Ute live pretty well, as they have done traditionally for
hundreds of years. The Mormons break their backs shaping this place into
something that will support them.
Jump to the future...the Ute are claiming areas as traditional lands...areas
along the San Juan River that the Mormons want. The 'Posey War (Ute War)
breaks out and the Ute are forced onto this piece of ground no one wants and
confined there. This is in 1926, give or take a few years.
The Mormons never prosper, they survive. They work decades to build a town
of a little over 4000, the largest in San Juan County. This is Blanding.
Every resource they can find to exploit they take. The Ute sit on their
reservation, prevented from leaving by prejudice, lack of public
transportation and no where to go. They are continuously discriminated
against. Instead, every penny the Federal Gov't allots for their education,
for improvements on the reservation, for road construction is used to the
benefit of Blanding residents first.
This area was depressed from day one for the Ute. Thus, your desire to force
them into the 'one size fits all' theory does not apply. If these people are
ever going to succeed, as they WISH to, the answer is in education.
Your questions about aid in general to all Native Americans...I do not think
ANY PHILOSOPHY will work for ALL of ANY people. We are the USA. It is
obscene to allow people to starve over a principal. We need to help as help
is needed, and along with help in financial ways, help with volunteers and
opportunity is needed. A person can not build a business when there is no
market, when there are no resources, when most can not even balance a
checkbook let alone run a small company.
On 6/27/06, mark robert <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> John,
>
> You disagree that aid plays any role in depressing ambition to
> develop business in this area. (Inversely stated: you believe aid
> has never hurt the economy of this area one bit.) But do you also
> disagree that aid plays a role in depressing ambition to develop
> business in general? I am curious about your general philosophy
> for other areas (separate from the topic of this reservation). If
> not, and you agree that aid can depress ambition in other areas,
> where do you draw the line: on Native American status, or simply
> on the needs of any area/people (or something else)?
>
> -Mark
>
> PS: I'm sorry; what is "LDS"?
>
>
> ************
> {American jurors have complete Constitutional authority to vote
> "not guilty" based on nothing more than a disagreement with the
> case, no matter the evidence - despite the judge's instructions.
> There is absolutely no obligation to vote "guilty" to arrive at a
> unanimous verdict. Get on a jury, stand your ground, and fulfill
> its other main purpose: to counteract abusive government and
> unjust lawsuits.
> See www.fija.org
> [Please adopt this as your own signature.] }
>
> --------------------
>
> Well, no Mark, I do not. See, again you are making assumptions
> based on
> something you *read*.
>
> I will give you two points to consider. This area is SO DRY that,
> between
> 1910 and 1948 (approx) LDS citizens of Blanding drilled a tunnel
> through a
> rock mountain 1 1/2 miles long with picks and dynamite and
> removed the rock
> with a mule. This was so the snow melt could travel from one side
> of a
> mountain to another, to be used for drinking water. The water
> runs as a
> small stream. They did it without pay and provided the equipment.
> That is
> how much they needed a stream of water, still used today.
>
> The second is that 100% of the businesses, ranches and hay farms
> are owned
> my 49% of the people...Caucasian LDS. The remaining 51%, Navajo
> and Ute, do
> not own businesses. When they try, they are pushed out.
>
> On 6/27/06, mark robert <[EMAIL PROTECTED] <colowe%40iquest.net>> wrote:
> >
> > John,
> >
> > Do you agree that you omitted another reason for the economic
> > depression of the area: the existence of long-term aid
> (welfare,
> > treaty, reparations, or what ever name you wish to call it)? Do
> > you agree that aid plays ANY role in depressing ambition to
> > develop business?
> >
> > -Mark
> >
> > ************
>
>
>
--
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