See below:
ma ni [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > Vic, > > 1.) Your three sentences are not coherent. Please proof read > them. But I think I know what you are claiming: to advocate the > expansion of liberty; yet the details of it indicate aggression. so what?? why should you not agress against people that are antithetical to liberty??? ---------------- Yes, you are correct; you would be "aggressing". And therefore you should not do it for several reasons. Firstly, because you have not specified the persons you charge; OR even specified the charges (other than being "antithetical to liberty"); let alone provided habeas corpus or due process or fair trials or even evidence of crimes. ----------------- what do you owe the tyrants and their followers? nothing. ----------------- The fallacy of the false dichotomy: if we don't owe them something, we should kill them. ----------------- you are implying that liberty is absolute pacificism. total nonsense thats just a recent reinvention of the term. ----------------- No; YOU implied it as a strawman tactic so you could more easily argue against it. I specifically explained to you how it was incorrect, and would agree with you that it is nonsense. ----------------- according to your claims the war of independence should never have happened. ---------------------- Please supply some explanation how you came up with this, and how this bit of history is generally similar to the Iraq Invasion or the one you propose for N Korea and all other countries that are "antithetical to liberty". --------------------- > 2.) Surely you can see where my post is "coming from". It is an > elaboration on the true nature of YOUR advocacy. It explains "the > problem with going to their aid". But maybe I didn't use terms > you can connect with yours. Let me reword. Your "going to their > aid... to expand liberty" is actually a three-tiered act of > aggression against: a) troops; b) taxpayers; c) innocent Korean > victims. troops are all voluntary. taxpayers already pay for the troops and there is no such thing as innocent korean victims if they are killing people. --------------------- Regarding taxpayers: the status quo and aggression are not mutually exclusive. Regarding innocent Korean victims: if every country had your philosophy and invaded every other country they thought were victimizing their people, every single country in the world (who had a military) would be at war with several others. Under your method of achieving liberty, the world would have been destroyed long long ago, and neither you nor I would be conversing at the moment. --------------------- > 3.) Apparently, you did not comprehend the simply analogy. Do you > not understand the difference between: a) you going to Korea on > your own budget to defend innocents by proving the guilt of their > aggressors and preventing it; and b) starting another > first-strike "war" that is just about as unlibertarian, > unconstitutional, and multiply aggressive as it gets. so what? you are using the cover of pacifism to tacitly consent to a crime. to sit idly by and watch a crime takes place is immoral and inhuman. as I said the LP seems to have become the party of no give a shit. Vic ---------------- No again! I specifically explained how pacifism rules out self defense, and how libertarianism does not. You seem severely misinformed on fundamental libertarian terms, concepts and principles. I am curious to know which libertarian elements you endorse and why; I assume you endorse SOME or you would not be here. THAT may be a much shorter and more efficient discussion. -Mark ForumWebSiteAt http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Libertarian Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Libertarian/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Libertarian/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
