Jon, part of your post misrepresents what I advocated. > Jon said: > Consider the concept of "recklessness". > What is "reckless" behavior, and > when does it become a "treat" justifying the "initiation" of "force"?
The principle of universal libertarianism is that a person is free to do as chosen by their informed free will EXCEPT for initiating, or doing a CREDIBLE threat of initiating, physical force against the physical body or justly held possessions of an unconsenting other person. Thus, if a threat is indeed CREDIBLE then one is free to USE defensive physical force; since the reciprocity needed for a 'truce' is not present in this hypothetical case. Jon, I'm always pleased to hear from you; but, the other arguments you made seem, for me, to be more of an 'iz not' nature :) -Terry Liberty Parker Please see what I wrote in- 'Libertarian Women, Men and Children' at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Libertarian/message/51727 --- In [email protected], Jon Roland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > The tension here is is between Terry's attempt to reduce what might be > called a "rule of civic conduct" down to a simple "non-aggression > principle", and the recognition by most of the rest of us that the > statements of that principle simply do not, and cannot, contain within > them the amount of logical information needed to derive decisions for > how people should conduct themselves in a full range of everyday > situations. > At the Founding of this country most of those rules could be subsumed > within a body of legal traditions and Blackstone's 4-volume set of > Commentaries on Common Law, covering everything from tort to fraud to > contracts to probate to nuisance to property rights disputes. It would > be absurd to try to deal with the complexities of life today with so > little law and government. We have entire libraries full of it. > Now one could argue that we have overcomplicated the issues, but an > equally good case can be made that we have no complicated them enough. > It can also be argued that the essence of that entire body of law and > government is expressed in the "non-aggression principle". But if that > argument is made then what one is doing is loading a lot more > information into the terms "non-aggression" or "initiation of force" > than those words have for most readers. Complexity should be reduced as > far as possible but no farther. > Consider the concept of "recklessness". What is "reckless" behavior, and > when does it become a "treat" justifying the "initiation" of "force"? If > some guy is playing around with fissionable materials, at what point do > we intervene to deal with the risk that he will set off a nuclear > explosion? If a guy is experimenting with genetic engineering of > viruses, at what point do we intervene to deal with the risk that he > will develop a plague that will wipe out humanity? Do we wait for it to > happen, or step in to prevent it, and if so, how? > The "non-aggression principle" seems to presume a world of basically > civilized people whose behavior only needs adjustment at the margins. > That is not the world we live in. Too many people are not only not > civilized, but actively bent on exterminating us, and extinguishing > anyone who doesn't think like they do. Humanity worldwide is not in a > state of civil society, but in a state of war. Libertarian principles > apply to isolated pockets of civilization where conditions permit them > to operate, and we can all try to extend those pockets to the entire > world, but we are a long way from achieving that happy state of affairs. > > -- Jon > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > Constitution Society 7793 Burnet Road #37, Austin, TX 78757 > 512/299-5001 www.constitution.org [EMAIL PROTECTED] > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > ForumWebSiteAt http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Libertarian Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Libertarian/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Libertarian/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
