Good luck with gonzales, Sasan. I don't have time to reiterate how discrimination is costly to the discriminator. (If some employers won't hire Jews, and as a result Jews command lower salaries for equal work, then an employer can gain a competitive advantage by hiring only Jews and eventually the discriminator goes bankrupt, etc., blah, blah, blah...)
Why did Jim Crow laws exist? It is precisely because some merchants wanted to deal with blacks, as employees and customers, to gain a competitive advantage over those who would not, that the latter were able to make laws to prevent their competitors from dealing with blacks, another example of the unholy alliance between business and government. If no merchants wanted to deal with blacks, Jim Crow laws would not have been needed. Hilariously, gonzolez holds up GM as an example of a rapacious company that has the public in a stranglehold. The only "public" GM has any sway over is Obama. --- On Thu, 1/21/10, diablogonzales <[email protected]> wrote: From: diablogonzales <[email protected]> Subject: [Libertarian] Re: Polling, Race, Religion, Politics. To: [email protected] Date: Thursday, January 21, 2010, 8:17 PM --- In Libertarian@ yahoogroups. com, "Sasan" <sasan.sadat@ ...> wrote: > > --- In Libertarian@ yahoogroups. com, "diablogonzales" <Spammastergrand@ > > wrote: > > > > How come I can't create a poll here? > > > > Ther reason I'm asking is because od someone who seems to misunderstand > > Libertarian principles to mean we believe a business should have the > > freedom to do anything it wants, or even we don't believe in laws. > > Nonsense. Not liking regulation is not a call for anarchy. > > > > > Yes it is. > > > > There are common sense laws about rape, murder, theft, that no one seems > > against with he possible exception of rapists, murderers and thiefs. > > > > > If it's "common sense" then why are laws necessary? Because they are cultural universals no culture is without and no sane person wants to end. No one wants to return to a barbaric culture of half apes. Laws protect us, our families and children. There would be no private property because the world would be on fire with murder and theft. Like post apocalyptic movies. If you had a house, armed people would try to take it constantly. Who is dumb enough to want to live in a society with no laws? > > > > As for corporations, does anyone here think they should have the freedom to > > sell poison as cherry coke? > > > > > That doesn't seem like a profitable business plan, does it? > It doesn't matter. They have the responsibility not to harm people, like any person. The managers making decisions have the personal responbility not to lie cheat, harm the population or they should go to prison. They want the same rights as an individulal, perverting the 14th amendment, they should have the same responsibility. As it is we've given them the farm. Like Bayer selling AIDs tainted blood overseas. Whoever makes the decision to do that should go to prison. > > > You can't take platforms and statements then pervert them to extremes and > > talk about inconsistency. > > > > Another contention is that Libertarians believe employers have the right to > > hire anyone they want, and discriminate against anyone they want. So my > > poll would be, do you think an employer has the right to refuse to hire > > someone because of race, religion, gender or sexuial orientation? > > > > Yes Then they are in the wrong country. In fact wrong era. They already tried that in Germany. > > > > Another poll would be, would you vote for a simple bill that said an > > employer can not discriminate in hiring or pay based on gender, race, > > religion or sexual orientation. > > > > > No Why? You have a mideastern sounding name, how do you feel about people not hiring Arabs and Indians? Or paying you less. You are in favor of the practice? > > > > That is a bit different than equal pay because an employer should be able > > to pay someone more for the same job who's done it for ten years with 7% > > annual raises? Or some guy gets hired out of Harvard, some woman at of > > Montgomery Community College. > > > > But a law could be written that states you can't discrimate in hirin or pay > > based on the race, gender, etc criteria. Leaving the burden of proof up to > > a person suing a company. So the company is not forced to simply pay > > everyone the same for the same job. > > > > I mean, does anyone here think an employer has the right in a free market > > system to just say, sorry, we don't hire blacks here? > > > > > Yes I don't even think Rand believed corporations were not accountable legally, and morally bound to act ethically. > > > > I personally think, why not? I believe in meritocracy. I believe people > > should have a redress to the law if someone refuses to hire them based on > > anything but merit, ability, skills, experience, etc. > > > > > An employer that does not hire based on merit is: > > A) stupid, and won't be able to compete with employers that do hire based on > merit, or > > B) shielded form competition by some form of government intervention. You can't let profit and supply and demand dictate laws regulations and governance. "If they kidnap children, and sell them as sex slaves, they will get bad publicity." "People will eventually find out their products are poison, and stop using them." Those are idiotic positions. We do not live in fucking caves. We live in a civilized society by which we expect people to live by the golden rule, and create laws to hold people to them. To punish theft, rape and murder. There are government regulations to stop antitrusts like Standard Oil using method to destroy competition, like the car companies did with Delorian or Tucker. Because society is overregulated in some areas, or even that regulatory agencies are sometimes corrupt does not mean our elected representatives do not have the right to make laws restricting corporate behavior to not harm people, like to people or cheat people. Their are false advertising laws that are not really enforced that strictly, but imagine someone going on television and saying, "If you order now, we'll send you a million dollars in gold bars, with every purchase of a Corolla." You don't wait till people are cheated, you prevent it from happening by making it illegal. You don't allow companies to corner the market like Standard Oil or GM, or to sell snake oil as a cancer cure becase the population elects representatives to pass laws that protect them. > > ---Sasan Every society has laws, every government some regulations. And for good reason. No modern society could exist without them. I could rape any woman, steal any car, murder any homeowner without them. You sound like an anarchist. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
