> Doris
> > Yes it is, but one should add to it "or fraud" for clarity.
> 
> In which case, it is no longer an initiation. An initiation
> implies being the first to do something.
> 
> If someone is fraudulent and the police respond use force
> to arrest him, then the police are being "the first".

No.  It is simply clarifying that fraud is the same as force.

Lowell C. Savage
It's the freedom, stupid!
Gun control: tyrants' tool, fools' folly.


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