Date: Sat, 15 Jun 2002 18:03:48 -0500 From: John Musielewicz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: [LIB] OS/2 on the 70CT
On Thu, 13 Jun 2002 03:00:18 -0700, you wrote: >Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2002 02:54:20 -0700 >From: Raymond <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Subject: Re: [LIB] OS/2 on the 70CT > >*MUST RESIST URGE TO FLAME*.... If you flame everyone that writes something you disagree with it must get pretty lonely. > >OK here goes ... I probably shouldn't even reply to this but I'll just briefly >(yea right ... heh) answer the points you bring up and leave it at that. I've >got neither the time nor the spare effort to have a flame war. > > >> >in what I thought was a forum dominated by technology and engineering >> >professionals ... >> >> You might respect criminals- I don't. > >My problem wasn't with you slagging Microsoft and I won't get into MS being >illegal or not. My problem was, last I looked, writing in such a form, >especially without a point (you could have said 'I don't like Microsoft' and >backed it up with some facts), was not only rude, it was insulting to the list >as a whole. Hence my thing about this list supposedly being dominated by >professionals. I thought such language was limited to the script kiddy rooms on >EFNet. As such, you could argue that you're not respecting the list. You're not >calling us criminals are you? Not when I wrote it. However you did give some food for thought. The company of Microsoft and people that work for it are obviously doing criminal acts. But what about the people that support them? What about the programmer that refuses to write for other operating systems forcing people to use Windows if they need to use his program? The end user that runs out and buys windows of their own free will and therefore supports Microsoft in their nefarious operations with his cash? The business that considers no other operating system for their computers and actually forces the dealer which supplies them with the equipment to sell windows if he is going to feed his family? Are these people criminals? Each of these acts greatly tighten the noose of the MS monopoly. In fact without these acts MS couldn't do what it does. Is aiding and abetting a criminal act a crime? Is it possible for the end user to be a criminal and be as guilty as the perp? Or is it simply a case of wanton stupidity? I have a brother in law with that problem so I've seen it before. His famous words where "I like coca cola so I could care less if coke had a monopoly on soft drinks". Some people really want a country like the USSR as long as its THEIR Russia. They have no idea how important compitition and diversirty are to development and growth. Some people just don't care about growth. > > >> >Linux over both OS/2 and Windows as it is actively maintained, has full >> >support on the Libretto series of laptops and has no licence issues (not >> >that I'm proposing that it is a solution for you). >> > >> >> You can't expect anyone to take freeware seriously. > >Tell that to IBM, Compaq, HP, Intel, Dell, Novell ... I have yet to see a Thinkpad for sale at Best Buy running Linux. > > >>If a person needs >> to who would he call if there's a support issue? > >If a person needs support for any other product who would they call? Not only >can you buy support plans for open source software from reputable companies (and >have a total cost of ownership still be lower than closed source software), the >'hacker base' - the free newsgroups, chat channels and mailing lists surrounding >open source software tend to be a lot more active than for closed source >software for obvious reasons. I had a problem with an open source 3D modelling >program (QuArK). I brought it up, cold, on a newsgroup and I downloaded a fixed >executable within 18 hours. You try that with closed source. > So your average user is supposed to, for a hundred dollar OS, pay thousands to support it? Why? What's so hard about making an OS that works? A self repairing OS (if they have to and with windows they have to!!)? One that runs in 8 or 16 meg (8 is better) and has the runiments of thought, leaving just about all of the ram for programs. I realize AI is pretty much in in a blind alley so there's no help there but even the people at MS should have the ability to build one. Or your supposed to become an instant computer geek. Not too practical for your average one license user that simply wants to run a word processor and quicken and also works a full time job and has a life. About as practical as wasting the time fixing a toaster if it breaks instead of getting a new one. > >> For example- right >> now my newsserver is giving me problems. So I call earthlink to tell >> they have a problem. While the support tech is telling me to uninstall >> and reinstall Dial up networking (which of course didn't solve the >> problem- my computer works perfectly except for a few corrupted files >> which I got when I had bad memory) I asked him if they support one of >> the most popular operating systems out there- Linux. No he tells me >> they don't. > >Haven't you just proven your point incorrect? You said Earthlink wasn't >supporting Linux ... doesn't sound like their Windows support was much use >either. Besides, thats like only having ever seen Ford dealerships and telling >people never to by Mitsubishi because you can't get support when there's a >Mitsubishi dealership just over the next hill that you never go over because you >don't like that part of town. Wrong. My point was this. Ford has taken control of the auto business. Ford is squeezing out every other dealer and manufac6ter. It has gotten to the point where, if you look, you simply cannot buy a car without the ford label. If you manage to find a differant make either repairs or parts or whatever are either impossible to find or simply not availible or very expensive. Ford has a monoply. Either buy Ford or nothing or pay through the yingyang. Now even though I like Fords why the heck would anyone want just one brand of anything? And its just not that. At least with Ford you'd get a quality product. With Windows you're not even getting that. Its interesting that LInux is free and windows is not. It should be the other way round. There are a ton of suckers in the world that believe whatever they are told. You don't realize how many until you look at the number of people that willingly use Windows. > > >>So what good does it do to have progressive operating >> systems if the very people that work on them only support one or two >> which ones are dictated, of course, by Redmond. The average joe will >> never be able to use what he chooses because the people that are >> supposed to fix them won't. > >In my experience, on average those people who ONLY support Microsoft products >tend to NOT be as highly trained as those that support say Linux servers or >Netware servers, judging by the quality of contracted techs we tended to get >where I used to work and by looking at what it takes to get certified by >Microsoft, Novell and RedHat. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying there aren't >good MCSE's around, I've also met some of those as well but YOUR experience just >showed that it isn't the presence of support that matters, its the quality. Once >you can get it of course (which you can). > So we agree about the quality of the microsoft experience. > >> Its as if every auto mechanic gets >> together and decides they're going to work on only one make of car. >> (For ease of support of course.) That they are only going to ALLOW one >> make. They are going to force everybody to drive a Ford. > >Sounds quite reasonable if it's some place that just became a Ford dealership. You completely missed the point. > > >> Sorry guys no >> more Corvettes. > >Of course not. Take your Corvette down the road to the Corvette dealership. > There are no Chevies (except for old ones) because nobody supports or sells them. The mechanics have decided that their way is the best way and if you don't like it- tough! You can fix your own car- if you can get the parts. The mechanics can do this because they have gotten control. They have managed to make most of the market Ford and have gotten control of the dealers so they onl;y sell ford products. The manufacturers have gone along so that they can make cheaper products since they only have to make Ford products. Service3 has gone along so they have cheaper support- they only have to support Ford products. The market is now a Ford driven market. Ford decides what the hardware will be like, what software will be like, whether 4 wheel drive is still availible and since they have control now sets the prices. Ford sets the standards. Why not? The market was wide open with alot of good ideas and very little focus. Ford has brought a sense of stability. People are generally afraid of new ideas, new products, a little nervous if they think there might be something differant around the corner. People from the US even go to MacDonalds when they are in Europe and ignore all the good european food. Most people don't want to learn- it makes their head hurt. :-) The problems now are many but I'll mention two. One is price fixing- it has already started. Two- the market has stagnated since there is little innovation. There isn't anything being done now that can't be done with a 186 at a perfectly acceptable speed. It outrageous that most of this software, for the little it does, needs a 32 bit micro with huge amounts of ram. Now don't get me wrong- I don't mind huge amounts of ram. But just because its there doesn't mean all decent standards are thrown out the window and it gobbled up for no reason whatsoever then it is simply there. > >> Of course now Earthlink is canned and I'll find a ISP >> that is more progressive and supports more than just windows and Macs. > >Dunno about where you are but in the backwater that is the Australian internet, >all the second level techs I've spoken to know about Linux and can at least give >advice or put you through to someone who can, and quite a few know about OS/2 >(and the first level techs put you straight through to the second level techs >once they hear anything that isn't a Windows or a Mac box). > In the US in the supposed free market. Where MS has a throttlehold on the PC business. > >Basically it boils down to doing your homework and knowing what you're talking >about before you make generalizations ... oh and please, please, please use >language thats appropriate to the forum (or if its inappropriate at least >specify that it is in jest, if that is indeed the case and is not apparent >otherwise). Otherwise it just gets painful. I assume thats the case for the >other members of the list (or at least those who didn't just ignore or delete >the email on the first misspelling of 'Windows'), if it isn't someone else >please say something ... Non sequitor. People are differant. Accept the fact and live with it. > >*sigh* Why are you sighing? Or maybe you'd prefer to live in a bubble and ignore reality? This is a very relivant libretto conversation since there are always posts about windows on this list and people, if they are going to use it, should have a good grasp of the ethics behind it. Would you tell someone if they were buying stolen property and didn't know it? > >- Raymond > > > >************************************************************** >http://libretto.basiclink.com - Libretto mailing list >http://www.silverace.com/libretto/ - Archives > > -------TO UNSUBSCRIBE------- >Reply to any of the list messages. The reply mail should be >addressed to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Then replace any text >on the message's subject line: cmd:unsubscribe > --------TO UNSUBSCRIBE DIGEST------ >Do above but with this on subject line: cmd:unsubscribe digest >************************************************************** > ************************************************************** http://libretto.basiclink.com - Libretto mailing list http://www.silverace.com/libretto/ - Archives -------TO UNSUBSCRIBE------- Reply to any of the list messages. 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