Well said! And for significantly less money we can invest in a contract for a shuttle bus to provide transportation to all of these locations:)
Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone On Wednesday, October 26, 2022, 6:53 PM, Karla Gravis <[email protected]> wrote: Thanks everyone for the thoughtful discussion. Andy, I think Seth's post is only talking about the cost of renovating one pod, the pod allocated to LEAP in the new CC designs. There is simply no need to renovate all three pods. Right now they are in fact underutilized. My understanding is that they are used for the following activities: - LEAP. - Summer Camp. - Parks and Rec activities taking place after school (the vast majority). - A few Parks and Rec activities happening during school hours. - As and office for all three (3) PRD employees. #1,2 and 3 could be hosted in the school as they do not overlap with school hours. It would be duplicative to renovate the Pods when we have a perfectly fine school right next to it. #5 requires very little space and could be done either at the school or Town Offices, which only leaves #4 uncovered. An entire pod is probably much more space than we actually need for #4, so the $1.6MM figure is probably an overstatement. I still have not heard any CC proponent respond to Joanna and Yonca's eloquent pleas. What will it accomplish that cannot be done with the existing resources? As the initial post explained, towns our size simply do not build Community Centers. There are many ways to foster intergenerational commingling, which to be clear is a worthwhile goal, but building very expensive empty rooms is not one of them. Intergenerational commingling happens when there is a common purpose that brings everyone together, not as a result of a new building. We already have facilities where those activities can be done if people are willing to organize them. If people want to host a book club, they can use the library with the help of our amazing librarians, if they want to play sports, they can use Reed Gym, if they want to put on a play or have a town debate they can use the Donaldson Auditorium. Our town already has the most onerous property taxes in the region. Elevated property taxes are causing financial hardship, which is why the town approved the senior circuit breaker. Let us try to keep that in mind when we are talking about a project that would increase property taxes thousands of dollars a year. From: Andy Wang <[email protected]> Date: Wed, Oct 26, 2022 at 2:18 PM Subject: Re: [LincolnTalk] community center To: Seth Rosen <[email protected]> Cc: Lincoln Talk <[email protected]> Seth, Just to be fair in the comparison, according to the presentation in the Spring (reference here), the cost of renovation of the 3 pods from the CCPPDC report was originally estimated at $3-3.9 Million. Updated in 2021 to $3.8 - $5.3M and projected to 2025 Projected Construction Mid-Point at $4.5-6.1 M. Which is more like 20-26% on the low end. Also, several people have made this sound like it's just for CoA. As proposed, this is supposed to be a 'Community Center' not just a 'Senior Center'. So while you might consider the discussion of PRD with this as a conflation, others may not. It may be an opportunity to use what I think are two under-utilized resources (the pods and Bemis) into one with more use. At the same time, co-mingling diverse generational residents has shown to have a positive effect on all involved. There may be other intangible benefits for a Community Center, you can't look at everything from a financial side only (though, you can't ignore it either). In terms of renovation, I think Bemis and Pierce House, while lovely, are not ideal sites for either the CoA or a Community Center due to access, parking, physical layout of the spaces. Pierce House is historic and I doubt a large renovation would fly there. Bemis lacks parking and it doesn't appear like there is much room for expansion. The pods really do need a renovation, if you've been in them, that should be pretty obvious. I did go to a bunch of the Community Center discussions years ago and put my little blue dot on choices, but those were all about features and things you would love to have in a building. There is a financial reality that wasn't really discussed at the time (to my recollection, and at least not concretely). So, in general, I am in support of a combined community center to house CoA and PNR on the school campus, but at the current scale, I'm undecided. I'll air my issue with where we are in the movie though. The vote at the end of Nov to allocate $325k for professional services is really looking to provide detailed breakdown of two very similar proposals. The 'Infill of Pods' and the "Secondary Central Green' are estimated at $23-$24M and $24.3 - $25.4M (2025 Midpoint Construction #'s) respectively. I'm sure lots of folks may prefer one or the other for a variety of design reasons, but from a financial standpoint, they are about the same cost. Both are lovely buildings, but my concern is that neither may pass the larger town vote. I would have rather seen two separate proposals for a community center, one at the $12M range and one at the $24M range. Actual cost just as an example. It's clear the next steps that happen if the vote passes. What happens if the vote fails to pass? Does that remove the possibility of having a community center or does that just put things back to the committee to come back again? From my perspective, I'd much prefer a community center on a smaller scale, but also, I'd rather have one at the current proposal and be forced to pay, than not have one. I'm just not sure which way to vote in that case. Andy On Wed, Oct 26, 2022 at 11:47 AM Seth Rosen <[email protected]> wrote: Since some posters have mentioned it, we thought it would be helpful to zero into how the Pods factor into the Community Center project and what we think is the most rational path for the activities there. Neither of the existing currently proposed designs contemplates a new home for LEAP, although I do agree with Diana that there are definitely capital needs there. There are three pods. In both designs POD B would be LIGHTLY renovated and stay as a standalone facility to host LEAP. In one of the designs the two other pods would be torn down and in the other design they would be incorporated into the Community Center. The cost of renovating the LEAP pod was estimated at $1.125MM in 2018, using the same cost inflator used for the overall project, the updated cost would be approximately $1.6MM, which corresponds to 6% of the total Community Center project cost. We argue that the town has other public space to host the activities hosted in the Pods today, if at some point in the future they are not deemed further usable. LEAP as well as all of the after-hours Parks and Rec school-age-activities, which represent the vast majority of the program's indoor offerings, could easily be hosted in what is otherwise a brand-new empty school. There is already a precedent of a Parks & Recreation activity, namely IMLEM, using the school, specifically the 8th grade hub, to conduct its activities. We are sure other adult activities could also find accomodation. Adult basketball for example is already hosted at Reed Gym. As it relates to Parks and Rec Department (PRD), there is no urgency in finding the Department a new home. Once that happens, as anyone who has stepped foot into that office can attest, they only need a small fraction of their current space to house three employees. We are certain either the school or the 15,000 sqft Town offices could find space for them. Let us not conflate a discussion about the future of PRD and LEAP, which can be easily fixed at no incremental or a small cost, with a $25MM project with no other apparent incremental goal other than hosting COA. On Oct 26, 2022, at 9:15 AM, DJCP <[email protected]> wrote: My kids go to LEAP, the after school program, and we frequently use the Pods for community events and rec dept programs and generally hanging around after school and the Pods are in tough shape. Much like the school building was before the renovation. I am sensitive to costs, but significant overhaul of the Pods is needed in the imminent future. Costs are only going to go up if we put the project off. And I like the idea of rolling the senior center into the school campus as it would be nice to have the communities intersect more. (The Girl Scouts in particular already do service projects for the COA&HS and it would be great to expand that.) Again, I am sensitive to cost, not just for me but the community, but I hope everyone can keep an open mind. Diana Giles Rd On Wed, Oct 26, 2022 at 8:27 AM Louis Zipes <[email protected]> wrote: Maybe I missed it and I could be very wrong it but I think part of this project also takes into account the Hartwell Pods/Bemis Hall and the cost to sustain those/replace them going forward. That might or might not factor into the overall cost and design we are seeing. There have been community center meetings so I think I personally need to go back and watch them to be better educated. https://www.lincolntown.org/1019/Community-Center-FAQs On Wednesday, October 26, 2022, Joanna Owen Schmergel via Lincoln <[email protected]> wrote: What about the cost for ages 65 to 79? I do think low cost access to indoor year-round swimming is important for our older population. Many might find $199 a year to be a lot. If there is some kind of access to certain facilities at Hanscom for seniors that would be very good information to have. Hanscom has fantastic health & fitness facilities. Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone On Wednesday, October 26, 2022, 7:55 AM, Maureen At Beede <[email protected]> wrote: Lots of Lincoln seniors use beede center in concord. Full access for $199/year if over 80. On Wed, Oct 26, 2022 at 7:52 AM Joanna Owen Schmergel via Lincoln <[email protected]> wrote: Just out of curiosity, I wonder if our Lincoln seniors could ever be granted certain access to any of the phenomenal health and fitness facilities at Hanscom? Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone On Wednesday, October 26, 2022, 7:41 AM, Elaine Hawkes <[email protected]> wrote: Thank you Seth and others for bringing up the community center. It’s something I have been discussing with other youngish seniors (LSRHS class of 1971)and have a number of concerns. Although I don’t yet use the senior senior, and do think one with an elevator is important, I’m not sure how many older adults in town use it regularly. In my cohort, there is a greater worry about high property taxes and whether we can afford to continue to pay them if a community center is built. “If you build it they will come” (https://www.lincolntown.org/documentcenter/view/35385) Is this true, particularly with ongoing concerns about covid and availability of classes and meetings on Zoom? There are few offerings for adults through the Rec Department. Is that from lack of space or lack of interest? Most people I know go out of town for programs. I’m not happy with the design which appears to have a lot of wasted space in its “open concept”. With heating prices going up, how much will it cost to heat this big building? I also think the world has changed since 2017 when this community center was first discussed. I would rather the town spend its money on mixed income housing, for example, which it needs. And, Lincoln’s older homebound adults could stay in their homes if they had more services paid for by the town. This would be a good use of money for seniors. Lastly, if an expensive community center must be built, can we at the same time look at allowing more Lincoln homes to build accessory apartments and backyard cottages? This would help seniors pay their higher taxes, and stay in their large homes while benefiting non-high income folks looking for Lincoln housing. Elaine-- The LincolnTalk mailing list. To post, send mail to [email protected]. Search the archives at http://lincoln.2330058.n4.nabble.com/. Browse the archives at https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/private/lincoln/. Change your subscription settings at https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/lincoln. -- The LincolnTalk mailing list. To post, send mail to [email protected]. Search the archives at http://lincoln.2330058.n4.nabble.com/. Browse the archives at https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/private/lincoln/. Change your subscription settings at https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/lincoln. -- The LincolnTalk mailing list. To post, send mail to [email protected]. Search the archives at http://lincoln.2330058.n4.nabble.com/. Browse the archives at https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/private/lincoln/. Change your subscription settings at https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/lincoln. -- The LincolnTalk mailing list. To post, send mail to [email protected]. Search the archives at http://lincoln.2330058.n4.nabble.com/. Browse the archives at https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/private/lincoln/. Change your subscription settings at https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/lincoln. -- The LincolnTalk mailing list. To post, send mail to [email protected]. Search the archives at http://lincoln.2330058.n4.nabble.com/. Browse the archives at https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/private/lincoln/. Change your subscription settings at https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/lincoln. -- The LincolnTalk mailing list. To post, send mail to [email protected]. Search the archives at http://lincoln.2330058.n4.nabble.com/. Browse the archives at https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/private/lincoln/. Change your subscription settings at https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/lincoln. -- The LincolnTalk mailing list. To post, send mail to [email protected]. Search the archives at http://lincoln.2330058.n4.nabble.com/. Browse the archives at https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/private/lincoln/. Change your subscription settings at https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/lincoln.
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