As an active 78 year old, I’d be happy to walk to a bus stop. I love walking and hate driving! It would be fun to schedule a trip to Donelans once a week and see other folks on the shuttle bus—sociable!
Lynne Smith 5 Tabor Hill Road Lincoln, MA 01773 781-258-1175 Sent from my iPhone > On 27 Oct 2022, at 8:07 a.m., Joanna Owen Schmergel <[email protected]> > wrote: > > Those with that level of restricted mobility would get their own household > stop. > > I imagine that that is a smaller percentage and that the majority of our > seniors ambulatory enough to walk to a bus stop. > > > Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone > > On Thursday, October 27, 2022, 8:03 AM, Sara Mattes <[email protected]> > wrote: > > That might be quite hard for some seniors and those with mobility issues. > Imagine an 80 year old, using a walker, walking to and waiting at a > collection point/ bus stop, in rain, sleet or snow. > Such a system might keep many housebound. > > Sent from my iPhone > >>> On Oct 27, 2022, at 1:54 PM, Joanna Owen Schmergel <[email protected]> >>> wrote: >>> >> Not go to each individual household- shuttle stops similar to school bus >> stops >> >> >> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone >> >> On Thursday, October 27, 2022, 2:36 AM, Sara Mattes <[email protected]> >> wrote: >> >> Can we first understand the needs of seniors. >> What activities exist, what can/should be added? >> I would urge all to spend at least 1/2 day at Bemis to better understand >> what is currently going on. >> Activities and appointments are happening there the entire day that the >> front door is open. >> Look at the COA newsletter. >> It appears in EVERY Lincoln mailbox, monthly. >> >> Many of these ideas are very interesting and deserve further exploration. >> I am not sure that we can have a private tai service/shuttle bus to go to >> each individual household that needs transport. >> But, maybe that’s feasible. >> >> But, before we explore further, , let us understand what are our needs and >> where do places exist that might serve them. >> >> Sara Mattes >> 71 Conant >> (Per Lynne Smith’s request that we attach name and address to each post) >> >> >> >> ------ >> Sara Mattes >> >> >> >> >>> On Oct 26, 2022, at 7:49 PM, Joanna Owen Schmergel via Lincoln >>> <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>> $200k sounds roughly accurate. >>> >>> I personally like the idea of a town shuttle that would perhaps make the >>> “rounds” 3-4 times a day on a schedule to Donelean’s, Bemis, Town Hall, the >>> School/pods, the library, etc… >>> >>> Then activities for seniors would start being planned around the shuttle >>> schedule.. >>> >>> >>> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone >>> >>> On Wednesday, October 26, 2022, 7:30 PM, Lynne Smith <[email protected]> >>> wrote: >>> >>> Can someone estimate the cost of a full time driver (9-5) and an all- >>> electric car or shuttle bus? eg., Salary plus benefits: $100k; ev shuttle: >>> $100k. So $200K total? Or we could use Uber vouchers as some senior living >>> facilities do. >>> >>> Just another way of solving parking and driving problems. >>> >>> Lynne Smith >>> 5 Tabor Hill Road >>> Lincoln, MA 01773 >>> 781-258-1175 >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>>>> On 26 Oct 2022, at 7:02 p.m., Joanna Owen Schmergel via Lincoln >>>>> <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>> >>>> Well said! >>>> >>>> And for significantly less money we can invest in a contract for a shuttle >>>> bus to provide transportation to all of these locations:) >>>> >>>> >>>> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone >>>> >>>> On Wednesday, October 26, 2022, 6:53 PM, Karla Gravis >>>> <[email protected]> wrote: >>>> >>>> Thanks everyone for the thoughtful discussion. >>>> >>>> Andy, I think Seth's post is only talking about the cost of renovating one >>>> pod, the pod allocated to LEAP in the new CC designs. There is simply no >>>> need to renovate all three pods. Right now they are in fact underutilized. >>>> My understanding is that they are used for the following activities: >>>> LEAP. >>>> Summer Camp. >>>> Parks and Rec activities taking place after school (the vast majority). >>>> A few Parks and Rec activities happening during school hours. >>>> As and office for all three (3) PRD employees. >>>> #1,2 and 3 could be hosted in the school as they do not overlap with >>>> school hours. It would be duplicative to renovate the Pods when we have a >>>> perfectly fine school right next to it. #5 requires very little space and >>>> could be done either at the school or Town Offices, which only leaves #4 >>>> uncovered. An entire pod is probably much more space than we actually need >>>> for #4, so the $1.6MM figure is probably an overstatement. >>>> >>>> I still have not heard any CC proponent respond to Joanna and Yonca's >>>> eloquent pleas. What will it accomplish that cannot be done with the >>>> existing resources? >>>> >>>> As the initial post explained, towns our size simply do not build >>>> Community Centers. There are many ways to foster intergenerational >>>> commingling, which to be clear is a worthwhile goal, but building very >>>> expensive empty rooms is not one of them. Intergenerational commingling >>>> happens when there is a common purpose that brings everyone together, not >>>> as a result of a new building. We already have facilities where those >>>> activities can be done if people are willing to organize them. If people >>>> want to host a book club, they can use the library with the help of our >>>> amazing librarians, if they want to play sports, they can use Reed Gym, if >>>> they want to put on a play or have a town debate they can use the >>>> Donaldson Auditorium. >>>> >>>> Our town already has the most onerous property taxes in the region. >>>> Elevated property taxes are causing financial hardship, which is why the >>>> town approved the senior circuit breaker. Let us try to keep that in mind >>>> when we are talking about a project that would increase property taxes >>>> thousands of dollars a year. >>>> >>>> >>>> From: Andy Wang <[email protected]> >>>> Date: Wed, Oct 26, 2022 at 2:18 PM >>>> Subject: Re: [LincolnTalk] community center >>>> To: Seth Rosen <[email protected]> >>>> Cc: Lincoln Talk <[email protected]> >>>> >>>> >>>> Seth, >>>> >>>> Just to be fair in the comparison, according to the presentation in the >>>> Spring (reference here), the cost of renovation of the 3 pods from the >>>> CCPPDC report was originally estimated at $3-3.9 Million. Updated in 2021 >>>> to $3.8 - $5.3M and projected to 2025 Projected Construction Mid-Point at >>>> $4.5-6.1 M. Which is more like 20-26% on the low end. >>>> >>>> Also, several people have made this sound like it's just for CoA. As >>>> proposed, this is supposed to be a 'Community Center' not just a 'Senior >>>> Center'. So while you might consider the discussion of PRD with this as a >>>> conflation, others may not. It may be an opportunity to use what I think >>>> are two under-utilized resources (the pods and Bemis) into one with more >>>> use. At the same time, co-mingling diverse generational residents has >>>> shown to have a positive effect on all involved. There may be other >>>> intangible benefits for a Community Center, you can't look at everything >>>> from a financial side only (though, you can't ignore it either). >>>> >>>> In terms of renovation, I think Bemis and Pierce House, while lovely, are >>>> not ideal sites for either the CoA or a Community Center due to access, >>>> parking, physical layout of the spaces. Pierce House is historic and I >>>> doubt a large renovation would fly there. Bemis lacks parking and it >>>> doesn't appear like there is much room for expansion. The pods really do >>>> need a renovation, if you've been in them, that should be pretty obvious. >>>> >>>> I did go to a bunch of the Community Center discussions years ago and put >>>> my little blue dot on choices, but those were all about features and >>>> things you would love to have in a building. There is a financial reality >>>> that wasn't really discussed at the time (to my recollection, and at least >>>> not concretely). So, in general, I am in support of a combined community >>>> center to house CoA and PNR on the school campus, but at the current >>>> scale, I'm undecided. >>>> >>>> I'll air my issue with where we are in the movie though. The vote at the >>>> end of Nov to allocate $325k for professional services is really looking >>>> to provide detailed breakdown of two very similar proposals. The 'Infill >>>> of Pods' and the "Secondary Central Green' are estimated at $23-$24M and >>>> $24.3 - $25.4M (2025 Midpoint Construction #'s) respectively. I'm sure >>>> lots of folks may prefer one or the other for a variety of design reasons, >>>> but from a financial standpoint, they are about the same cost. Both are >>>> lovely buildings, but my concern is that neither may pass the larger town >>>> vote. I would have rather seen two separate proposals for a community >>>> center, one at the $12M range and one at the $24M range. Actual cost just >>>> as an example. >>>> >>>> It's clear the next steps that happen if the vote passes. What happens if >>>> the vote fails to pass? Does that remove the possibility of having a >>>> community center or does that just put things back to the committee to >>>> come back again? From my perspective, I'd much prefer a community center >>>> on a smaller scale, but also, I'd rather have one at the current proposal >>>> and be forced to pay, than not have one. I'm just not sure which way to >>>> vote in that case. >>>> >>>> Andy >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Wed, Oct 26, 2022 at 11:47 AM Seth Rosen <[email protected]> wrote: >>>> Since some posters have mentioned it, we thought it would be helpful to >>>> zero into how the Pods factor into the Community Center project and what >>>> we think is the most rational path for the activities there. >>>> >>>> Neither of the existing currently proposed designs contemplates a new home >>>> for LEAP, although I do agree with Diana that there are definitely capital >>>> needs there. >>>> >>>> There are three pods. In both designs POD B would be LIGHTLY renovated and >>>> stay as a standalone facility to host LEAP. In one of the designs the two >>>> other pods would be torn down and in the other design they would be >>>> incorporated into the Community Center. >>>> >>>> The cost of renovating the LEAP pod was estimated at $1.125MM in 2018, >>>> using the same cost inflator used for the overall project, the updated >>>> cost would be approximately $1.6MM, which corresponds to 6% of the total >>>> Community Center project cost. >>>> >>>> We argue that the town has other public space to host the activities >>>> hosted in the Pods today, if at some point in the future they are not >>>> deemed further usable. LEAP as well as all of the after-hours Parks and >>>> Rec school-age-activities, which represent the vast majority of the >>>> program's indoor offerings, could easily be hosted in what is otherwise a >>>> brand-new empty school. There is already a precedent of a Parks & >>>> Recreation activity, namely IMLEM, using the school, specifically the 8th >>>> grade hub, to conduct its activities. We are sure other adult activities >>>> could also find accomodation. Adult basketball for example is already >>>> hosted at Reed Gym. >>>> >>>> As it relates to Parks and Rec Department (PRD), there is no urgency in >>>> finding the Department a new home. Once that happens, as anyone who has >>>> stepped foot into that office can attest, they only need a small fraction >>>> of their current space to house three employees. We are certain either the >>>> school or the 15,000 sqft Town offices could find space for them. >>>> >>>> Let us not conflate a discussion about the future of PRD and LEAP, which >>>> can be easily fixed at no incremental or a small cost, with a $25MM >>>> project with no other apparent incremental goal other than hosting COA. >>>> >>>>>> On Oct 26, 2022, at 9:15 AM, DJCP <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> My kids go to LEAP, the after school program, and we frequently use the >>>>> Pods for community events and rec dept programs and generally hanging >>>>> around after school and the Pods are in tough shape. Much like the >>>>> school building was before the renovation. I am sensitive to costs, but >>>>> significant overhaul of the Pods is needed in the imminent future. Costs >>>>> are only going to go up if we put the project off. And I like the idea >>>>> of rolling the senior center into the school campus as it would be nice >>>>> to have the communities intersect more. (The Girl Scouts in particular >>>>> already do service projects for the COA&HS and it would be great to >>>>> expand that.) Again, I am sensitive to cost, not just for me but the >>>>> community, but I hope everyone can keep an open mind. >>>>> >>>>> Diana >>>>> Giles Rd >>>>> >>>>> On Wed, Oct 26, 2022 at 8:27 AM Louis Zipes <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>> Maybe I missed it and I could be very wrong it but I think part of this >>>>> project also takes into account the Hartwell Pods/Bemis Hall and the cost >>>>> to sustain those/replace them going forward. That might or might not >>>>> factor into the overall cost and design we are seeing. >>>>> >>>>> There have been community center meetings so I think I personally need to >>>>> go back and watch them to be better educated. >>>>> >>>>> https://www.lincolntown.org/1019/Community-Center-FAQs >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Wednesday, October 26, 2022, Joanna Owen Schmergel via Lincoln >>>>> <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>> What about the cost for ages 65 to 79? >>>>> >>>>> I do think low cost access to indoor year-round swimming is important for >>>>> our older population. >>>>> >>>>> Many might find $199 a year to be a lot. >>>>> >>>>> If there is some kind of access to certain facilities at Hanscom for >>>>> seniors that would be very good information to have. Hanscom has >>>>> fantastic health & fitness facilities. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone >>>>> >>>>> On Wednesday, October 26, 2022, 7:55 AM, Maureen At Beede >>>>> <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Lots of Lincoln seniors use beede center in concord. Full access for >>>>> $199/year if over 80. >>>>> >>>>> On Wed, Oct 26, 2022 at 7:52 AM Joanna Owen Schmergel via Lincoln >>>>> <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>> Just out of curiosity, I wonder if our Lincoln seniors could ever be >>>>> granted certain access to any of the phenomenal health and fitness >>>>> facilities at Hanscom? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Wednesday, October 26, 2022, 7:41 AM, Elaine Hawkes >>>>> <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Thank you Seth and others for bringing up the community center. It’s >>>>> something I have been discussing with other youngish seniors (LSRHS class >>>>> of 1971)and have a number of concerns. Although I don’t yet use the >>>>> senior senior, and do think one with an elevator is important, I’m not >>>>> sure how many older adults in town use it regularly. In my cohort, there >>>>> is a greater worry about high property taxes and whether we can afford to >>>>> continue to pay them if a community center is built. >>>>> >>>>> “If you build it they will come” >>>>> (https://www.lincolntown.org/documentcenter/view/35385) Is this true, >>>>> particularly with ongoing concerns about covid and availability of >>>>> classes and meetings on Zoom? >>>>> >>>>> There are few offerings for adults through the Rec Department. Is that >>>>> from lack of space or lack of interest? Most people I know go out of town >>>>> for programs. >>>>> >>>>> I’m not happy with the design which appears to have a lot of wasted space >>>>> in its “open concept”. With heating prices going up, how much will it >>>>> cost to heat this big building? >>>>> >>>>> I also think the world has changed since 2017 when this community center >>>>> was first discussed. I would rather the town spend its money on mixed >>>>> income housing, for example, which it needs. And, Lincoln’s older >>>>> homebound adults could stay in their homes if they had more services paid >>>>> for by the town. This would be a good use of money for seniors. >>>>> >>>>> Lastly, if an expensive community center must be built, can we at the >>>>> same time look at allowing more Lincoln homes to build accessory >>>>> apartments and backyard cottages? This would help seniors pay their >>>>> higher taxes, and stay in their large homes while benefiting non-high >>>>> income folks looking for Lincoln housing. >>>>> >>>>> Elaine >>>>> -- >>>>> The LincolnTalk mailing list. >>>>> To post, send mail to [email protected]. >>>>> Search the archives at http://lincoln.2330058.n4.nabble.com/. >>>>> Browse the archives at >>>>> https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/private/lincoln/. >>>>> Change your subscription settings at >>>>> https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/lincoln. >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> The LincolnTalk mailing list. >>>>> To post, send mail to [email protected]. >>>>> Search the archives at http://lincoln.2330058.n4.nabble.com/. >>>>> Browse the archives at >>>>> https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/private/lincoln/. >>>>> Change your subscription settings at >>>>> https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/lincoln. >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> The LincolnTalk mailing list. >>>>> To post, send mail to [email protected]. >>>>> Search the archives at http://lincoln.2330058.n4.nabble.com/. >>>>> Browse the archives at >>>>> https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/private/lincoln/. >>>>> Change your subscription settings at >>>>> https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/lincoln. >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> The LincolnTalk mailing list. >>>>> To post, send mail to [email protected]. >>>>> Search the archives at http://lincoln.2330058.n4.nabble.com/. >>>>> Browse the archives at >>>>> https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/private/lincoln/. >>>>> Change your subscription settings at >>>>> https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/lincoln. >>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> -- >>>> The LincolnTalk mailing list. >>>> To post, send mail to [email protected]. >>>> Search the archives at http://lincoln.2330058.n4.nabble.com/. >>>> Browse the archives at https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/private/lincoln/. >>>> Change your subscription settings at >>>> https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/lincoln. >>>> >>>> -- >>>> The LincolnTalk mailing list. >>>> To post, send mail to [email protected]. >>>> Search the archives at http://lincoln.2330058.n4.nabble.com/. >>>> Browse the archives at https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/private/lincoln/. >>>> Change your subscription settings at >>>> https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/lincoln. >>>> >>>> -- >>>> The LincolnTalk mailing list. >>>> To post, send mail to [email protected]. >>>> Search the archives at http://lincoln.2330058.n4.nabble.com/. >>>> Browse the archives at https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/private/lincoln/. >>>> Change your subscription settings at >>>> https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/lincoln. >>>> >>>> -- >>>> The LincolnTalk mailing list. >>>> To post, send mail to [email protected]. >>>> Search the archives at http://lincoln.2330058.n4.nabble.com/. >>>> Browse the archives at https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/private/lincoln/. >>>> Change your subscription settings at >>>> https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/lincoln. >>>> >>> >>> -- >>> The LincolnTalk mailing list. >>> To post, send mail to [email protected]. >>> Search the archives at http://lincoln.2330058.n4.nabble.com/. >>> Browse the archives at https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/private/lincoln/. >>> Change your subscription settings at >>> https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/lincoln. >>> >> >
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