Margaret - Can you give us the same calculation but use sq feet instead of
units? Perhaps the units are a lot smaller at Lincoln Woods?  What is the
sq ft per acre (net) at Lincoln woods vs Oriole Landing?

I still believe we are looking at a bunch of Oriole Landings (nice
buildings on their own actually) in town and a lot cars.

Guess we’ll see with Mall proposal (85 units, sq footage?) and we can
extrapolate from there before the up/down vote in March.

We will adjust to the congestion but will we still want to live here? My
guess is this will become a turn-over town like many towns in New Jersey
where people put up For Sale signs on high school graduation day.

Rob



On Tue, Oct 3, 2023 at 8:43 PM Margaret Olson <[email protected]> wrote:

> The net density shown on the HCA working group slides is this math:
>
> (unit count) / (lot size- wetlands - conservation restrictions)  = "HCA
> density"
> (unit count) / (lot size) = traditional net density
>
> For Oriole landing these numbers are:
> (60 acre lot)/ (6 acre lot - 0 wetlands acres - 0 acres with conservation
> restrictions)  = 10 units/acre
> In the Oriole Landing case the "HCA Density" and the traditional net
> density are the same.
>
> For Lincoln Woods these numbers are:
> "HCA Density": 20 acre lot - 13 acres of wetland - 0 acres with
> conservation restrictions / 125 units = 17.9 units per acre
> traditional net density: 20 acre lot / 125 units = 6.3 units per acre
>
> Note that Lincoln Woods has two apartment buildings as well as the
> townhouses that dominate the view from Lincoln Road.
>
>
> On Tue, Oct 3, 2023 at 7:57 PM Robert Ahlert <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Would it be ok if I called Utile? Can someone provide me a contact?
>>
>> Sorry but am dubious that Lincoln Woods (2 stories) with some gaps
>> between structures is higher “net” density than Oriole Landing (3 stories)
>> with net density of 10 per the presentation. If you don’t explain, we
>> should all be in doubt.
>>
>> My fear is that we will end up with larger Oriole Landings and many more
>> of them. Is this what Lincoln is really all about? What is the upside?
>> Busier stores? I don’t get it.
>>
>> CCBC might be more money out of my pocket but I can live with that.
>> Quality of life is irreplaceable.
>>
>> I fully understand that our hand was forced by the state and that  they
>> really over stepped here. Not blaming the Working Group. They are doing
>> best in bad situation.
>>
>> Rob A
>>
>> On Tue, Oct 3, 2023 at 5:56 PM Margaret Olson <[email protected]>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> That article uses a somewhat different definition of gross density and
>>> refers to the state’s highly complicated set of calculations. Any zoning
>>> regulation we pass will be net density, as are our current zoning bylaws.
>>> Utile, the consultants we hired to help us with this ( using state grant
>>> money) have run the calculations on our proposed zoning options to ensure
>>> we will comply.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, Oct 3, 2023 at 5:06 PM Robert Ahlert <[email protected]>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Margaret - according to this article, we are required to follow a gross
>>>> density calculation. That’s why I’m afraid that image might be accurate.
>>>> Can someone explain?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> https://commonwealthmagazine.org/opinion/solving-the-mbta-communities-zoning-puzzle/
>>>>
>>>> Also, does anyone know the answer as to whether each property owner can
>>>> sell out separately to separate developers? I don’t think there are any
>>>> requirements regarding who they sell to and when. Might need a couple extra
>>>> headcount in the planning department to deal with the proposals.
>>>>
>>>> Rob A
>>>> 185 Lincoln Rd, Lincoln, MA 01773
>>>> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/185+Lincoln+Rd,+Lincoln,+MA+01773?entry=gmail&source=g>
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, Oct 3, 2023 at 3:39 PM Margaret Olson <[email protected]>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> We are protected largely by the nature of our land and previous land
>>>>> use measures. The conservation land and wetlands can not be built on. As a
>>>>> practical matter there is no place around the train station where anything
>>>>> even vaguely resembling that image could be built. Issaquah Highlands is
>>>>> 2,200 acres and 4,000 homes, and that image appears to be a schematic
>>>>> showing the types of housing they have.
>>>>>
>>>>> Once again I urge you to look at the images of our existing
>>>>> developments shown in the HCA Working group presentation (
>>>>> https://www.lincolntown.org/DocumentCenter/View/85116). That
>>>>> illustrates what 17 and 18 units per acre look like* in Lincoln.*  A
>>>>> giant 2000+ acre development is not going to look like Lincoln - and can't
>>>>> be built here.
>>>>>
>>>>> On Tue, Oct 3, 2023 at 11:16 AM Sara Mattes <[email protected]>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> So how  are we protected from this happening ?
>>>>>> I might have missed something.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> [image: image.png]
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ------
>>>>>> Sara Mattes
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Oct 3, 2023, at 10:38 AM, Margaret Olson <[email protected]>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If you subtract the wetlands from the Lincoln Woods density, as we
>>>>>> are required to do for the HCA calculations, the density is 17.9 units 
>>>>>> per
>>>>>> acre. It’s that 17.9 that you experience as you walk around Lincoln 
>>>>>> Woods.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> As those of you who attended the STOTT presentations may remember, of
>>>>>> the 500 acres around the train station 340 (all but 160) are excluded 
>>>>>> from
>>>>>> HCA calculations because they are wetlands, institutions, water bodies, 
>>>>>> or
>>>>>> conservation land. To get a sense of what 15 units per acre looks like in
>>>>>> Lincoln please look at the examples in the STOTT presentation and look at
>>>>>> the density that accounts for the HCA exclusions.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Mon, Oct 2, 2023 at 8:32 PM ٍSarah Postlethwait <[email protected]>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Lincoln woods is 6.3 units per acre
>>>>>>> Proposed Lincoln center zoning is 25 units per acre
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> <image_123650291.JPG>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Mon, Oct 2, 2023 at 7:47 PM John Mendelson <
>>>>>>> [email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I had the good fortune of attending the tour of Lincoln Woods put
>>>>>>>> on by FOMA yesterday after taking part in the State of the Town 
>>>>>>>> Meeting on
>>>>>>>> Saturday.  See:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> https://www.fomalincoln.org/outreach
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> This densely built, multi-family development is anything but
>>>>>>>> "gross."  In fact, I think it is quite the opposite and in many ways,
>>>>>>>> represents the best of Lincoln in terms of its ideals, collaborative
>>>>>>>> problem solving, and honoring the town's history of supporting modern,
>>>>>>>> human scale dwellings.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Perhaps we should continue to trust the many volunteers who've put
>>>>>>>> so much time in coming up with a terrific solution to both comply with 
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> Housing Choice Act and to honor our history and values rather than to
>>>>>>>> fearmonger with words and images that don't represent the good work and
>>>>>>>> intentions of many residents.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> John
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Mon, Oct 2, 2023, 7:14 PM Sara Mattes <[email protected]>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> OK-can someone do that for the proposed area in S.Lincoln?
>>>>>>>>> The example offered by Robert Albert was alarming, and certainly
>>>>>>>>> NOT something I would like to see.
>>>>>>>>> Had I had such a visual at SoTT, I would voted for “None of the
>>>>>>>>> Above”, but would have indicated I would support a map that shrank 
>>>>>>>>> the size
>>>>>>>>> of the S.Lincoln district to focus on the Mall,  and maybe Lewis 
>>>>>>>>> Street,
>>>>>>>>> and then include the Lincoln North + Battle Road Farm to make up the
>>>>>>>>> difference.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Perhaps such modeling as seen in the post could better educate the
>>>>>>>>> likes of me as to what S.Lincoln might look like under each scenario?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I know the assertion is that this will take decades to build out,
>>>>>>>>> and that is my concern.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I want to leave Lincoln the wonderful, small town I fell in love
>>>>>>>>> with over 45 years ago.
>>>>>>>>> Yes, there have been and will be changes, but the density and
>>>>>>>>> intensity suggested is not what I would like to visit on  future
>>>>>>>>> generations.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> ------
>>>>>>>>> Sara Mattes
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Oct 2, 2023, at 9:49 AM, Don Seltzer <[email protected]>
>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> There is an excellent online tool called Residensity which
>>>>>>>>> provides an interactive map for viewing actual residential density for
>>>>>>>>> towns, neighborhoods, and individual parcels.
>>>>>>>>> https://residensity.mhp.net/
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Don Seltzer
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Oct 2, 2023 at 8:27 AM Robert Ahlert <[email protected]>
>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Hi all -
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> As we start to think about what this build out is going to look
>>>>>>>>>> like, it is useful to look at a couple articles that help visualize 
>>>>>>>>>> it.
>>>>>>>>>> Also, I learned that density can be spread across a district or
>>>>>>>>>> sub-district, only the average needs to be 15 units.  But with the 
>>>>>>>>>> 36' high
>>>>>>>>>> maximum in town, it will be interesting to see what the designs are.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> https://mrsc.org/stay-informed/mrsc-insight/april-2017/visualizing-compatible-density
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Scroll down in the above and you will get to some ideas about 15
>>>>>>>>>> units per acre.  Given some plots have wetlands, some will have to be
>>>>>>>>>> higher and others lower to make it average out.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> This assumes each property owner in the district/sub districts
>>>>>>>>>> sells-out at the same time.  If they don't, i guess each developer 
>>>>>>>>>> will
>>>>>>>>>> come up with their own design?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> <image.png>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Rob
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>> *Robert Ahlert* | *781.738.1069* | [email protected]
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