>> The advantages of gas-fired home furnaces are they are generally not subject to distribution disruption
How do you power the gas-fired furnace if you lose power to your home anyways? Best, Lacho On Mon, Dec 29, 2025 at 8:28 PM Nick Gardner <[email protected]> wrote: > COP is used because it's a lot easier to understand than BTU/kWh. Everyone > agrees there may be a point where gas heating emits less carbon than using > gas fired electricity to power a cold climate heat pump, but those > circumstances are very rare and over the course of a year the heat pump > will have vastly lower emissions, and will only have lower emissions over > time as the grid gets greener. > > I agree grid reliability isn't amazing in Lincoln with overhead power > lines and lots of trees. But a battery and/or a generator is a great > emergency backup. > > -Nick > > On Mon, Dec 29, 2025, 19:51 Arthur Buckland <[email protected]> wrote: > >> >> Thank you, what a huge benefit to all of us to have Lincoln's CREE group- >> a wonderful resource for us non-technical older folks >> >> Yes, it is true Mitsubishi’s new inverter-driven compressors (cold >> temperature HVACs) are an engineering marvel. Their low temperature models >> even perform much better at high temps than conventional HVACs, and even >> many stand alone AC units. Mitsubishi does though obfuscate their >> efficiency numbers by using this vague COP metric and then give a >> multiplier in their engineering manuals in a different section, and never >> ever give the normal efficiency curves for this type of equipment. And it >> appears they are intentionally trying to hide the kWh (kilowatt hours- this >> is half of the charges on your Eversource bill the other half is a >> "delivery charge") to BTU (British thermal Units or "therms") efficiencies >> >> Mainly, I am most concerned about the unreliable and inefficient Lincoln >> electricity distribution system. If there is a power outage in a storm no >> matter how efficient the HVAC is, there is no heat produced. In this last >> storm one of the Hive stated they had no electricity for 28 hours and it >> was not even a big storm. The advantages of gas-fired home furnaces are >> they are generally not subject to distribution disruption and have a 98% >> conversion from natural gas to BTUs. That compares with modern gas-fired >> CCGT electricity power plants which run at best a 62% gas to kWh conversion >> rate and then send the electricity down our Lincoln grid which has at best >> an 8% transmission loss. That means our electricity uses ~2X more gas, >> generating twice the carbon, before any HVAC begins to convert the >> electricity to heat >> For the Mitsubishi model MUZ-FH12NAH-1 (one of the best cold temp HVACs) >> I asked Chat GPT to convert the Mitsubishi published COP numbers to BTU >> heat delivered per 1kWh: >> *Outdoor ambient temp (degrees f,)* * BTU heat /1 kWh* >> >> 47 15,354 (normal above this) >> 17 8,456 >> 5 7,376 >> -13 6,824 >> So I think you can see once you get below 15 degrees Fahrenheit you >> consume twice the electricity to heat your home ( with 4X the carbon >> produced) , but the good news is, if you have one of these systems, they >> continue to heat down to pretty low temperatures as long as there is >> electricity. >> >> I should be clear; we have this model of cold temp Mitsubishi mini split >> installed in our home. It is for an auxiliary room without plumbing and we >> will be installing US-made 24% efficiency solar panels with batteries >> (unfortunately using Chinese precious metals) to power it and charge our >> Mitsubishi (coincidentally) hybrid car >> >> I am, I guess, particularly sensitive to this matter, because we moved >> here from Concord, MA where the electricity costs about a third of what it >> does here in Lincoln and we had one power outage in 16 years that lasted 4 >> hours. We have already had 2 outages in a year from a mild storm and a car >> crash. The old power lines here are badly maintained with trees and bushes >> hanging all over the lines, but it gives Eversource a license to charge >> huge delivery bills >> >> >> With warm regards, >> Art >> +1 978.873.3000 >> >> >> >> On Dec 29, 2025, at 11:05 AM, Stephen Dirrane <[email protected]> >> wrote: >> >> Hello All- >> >> Chuck Sizer, a founding member of Lincoln’s CFREE (carbon free >> residential- everything electric) group and a refrigeration engineer, >> monitored the coefficiency of performance (CoP) on his Mitsubishi heat pump >> a few years back when the temperature dropped to subzero temperatures. >> >> Having been at his house and looked at all of the graphs with watt >> consumption tied in, I was amazed to see that, as Nick suggests, the CoP >> was able to shadow the temperatures exactly- meaning there was no increase >> of cost to provide temperature per degree with a heat pump; so the >> efficiency and economy maintained all the way to -5°. Hvac engineer savant >> Antis Hartmann echoed Nick’s statement about newer systems having a steady >> CoP all the way down to -15°. >> >> Lincoln is fortunate to have perhaps the most advanced committee >> reviewing apparatus, legislation and other initiatives towards more >> environmentally, sustainable and efficient energy with the CFREE group. >> Their meetings are advertise through Town’s website and a lot of their >> information has been posted to YouTube. For any resident consider >> considering upgrading their heating system, adding solar panels, and/or >> battery backups, or even considering an EV versus another combustion engine >> purchase, please reach out and take advantage of this amazing group of >> community- minded, locally active (slightly nerdy) individuals who have >> amassed tremendous amounts of information and insight. >> >> Stephen Dirrane >> >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On Dec 28, 2025, at 8:43 PM, Nick Gardner <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> >> That is unfortunately outdated information. With modern cold climate heat >> pumps, the heat pumps are more environmentally friendly than natural gas >> heating at around 15f if you're on the Lincoln basic plan and have a 95% >> efficient furnace. If you are on the standard plan, it's *always* more >> environmentally friendly to run the heat pumps instead of gas. The >> technology has greatly improved recently. Happy to go over the numbers with >> anyone if they'd like, I'm a bit proponent of heat pumps. >> >> I do agree about power reliability, but battery backup solutions have >> gotten a lot better recently as well. >> >> -Nick >> >> On Sun, Dec 28, 2025, 20:09 Arthur Buckland <[email protected]> wrote: >> >>> Thank you, Nick, >>> >>> You are correct that point 1 about the unreliable Lincoln electric grid >>> is the most important >>> >>> But you might check your HVAC system: >>> >>> “Areas of the country subjected to temperatures 40 degrees and lower for >>> extended periods are not ideal for a heat pump installation. >>> >>> Why? Well, as the temperature drops, heat pumps work harder to maintain >>> desired comfort levels. This results in more energy use, driving up your >>> utility bill. >>> >>> In addition, once the temperature drops below 40 degrees, most heat pump >>> systems lose their heating efficiency and must switch to emergency heat >>> mode, which utilizes electric resistant heat strips that use more >>> electricity.” >>> >>> And you are correct, below 0 f. the heat strips are almost useless >>> except to generate huge electric bills. It is like heating your home with >>> non-oil-filled electric space heaters >>> >>> Also since Massachusetts generally has very efficient >>> gas-fired/generated electricity on our grid, the extra electricity to >>> generate heat from HVACs consumes vastly more green house gases than direct >>> conversion from gas at our homes >>> >>> Heating with electricity below 32f is bad for the environment. >>> With warm regards, wishing all a peaceful and healthy 2026 >>> Art >>> +1 978.873.3000 >>> >>> On Dec 28, 2025, at 6:26 PM, Nick Gardner <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>> >>> I'd push back against number 2 in particular. Cold climate heat pumps >>> typically provide full output down to 5f and still operate at -13f. I and >>> many others use heat pumps as a primary method of HVAC and have had no >>> issue even on the coldest of cold days. >>> >>> -Nick >>> >>> On Sun, Dec 28, 2025, 18:17 Arthur Buckland via Lincoln < >>> [email protected]> wrote: >>> >>>> Rosemary >>>> >>>> Erik Lyons - (978) 621-2642 >>>> New business, hard working, local >>>> >>>> Max heating & cooling >>>> Sam or Dan >>>> (617) 453-8865 >>>> Best in Boston >>>> >>>> Do not use HVAC for heating in Lincoln >>>> 1. Lincoln’s electric grid is too unreliable (I think Eversource >>>> cultivates tree growth over our old fragile power lines) >>>> 2. HVACs are not designed for very cold weather which we occasionally >>>> have >>>> >>>> If you insist on HVACs have a good wood- burning stove in the house >>>> >>>> With warm regards, >>>> Art >>>> +1 978.873.3000 >>>> >>>> On Dec 28, 2025, at 10:12 AM, Deb Wallace <[email protected]> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> Rosemary, >>>> >>>> Have you tried Haffner's formerly Concord Oil? They have been servicing >>>> my furnace for decades and I have been very satisfied with them. >>>> https://www.haffners.com/ >>>> >>>> Deb >>>> >>>> >>>> On Sun, Dec 28, 2025 at 8:43 AM Rosemary Lloyd <[email protected]> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Hello Hive, >>>>> We need to replace two gas fired furnaces (sadly, two reputable >>>>> companies have concluded we cannot replace with heat pumps). Looking for >>>>> recommendations for high efficiency furnace and a great company to procure >>>>> and install them. Thanks! >>>>> >>>>> Rosemary >>>>> -- >>>>> The LincolnTalk mailing list. >>>>> To post, send mail to [email protected]. >>>>> Browse the archives at >>>>> https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/private/lincoln/. >>>>> Change your subscription settings at >>>>> https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/lincoln. >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>> The LincolnTalk mailing list. >>>> To post, send mail to [email protected]. >>>> Browse the archives at >>>> https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/private/lincoln/. >>>> Change your subscription settings at >>>> https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/lincoln. >>>> >>>> -- >>>> The LincolnTalk mailing list. >>>> To post, send mail to [email protected]. >>>> Browse the archives at >>>> https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/private/lincoln/. >>>> Change your subscription settings at >>>> https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/lincoln. >>>> >>>> -- >> The LincolnTalk mailing list. >> To post, send mail to [email protected]. >> Browse the archives at >> https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/private/lincoln/. >> Change your subscription settings at >> https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/lincoln. >> >> -- >> The LincolnTalk mailing list. >> To post, send mail to [email protected]. >> Browse the archives at >> https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/private/lincoln/. >> Change your subscription settings at >> https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/lincoln. >> >> -- > The LincolnTalk mailing list. > To post, send mail to [email protected]. > Browse the archives at https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/private/lincoln/ > . > Change your subscription settings at > https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/lincoln. > >
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