The kicker for me in my first install was formatting the Linux disk w/out having a Linux system. Having to drop out of the text based menus and figure out how to format and then return to the install. B
-----Original Message----- From: Linux on 390 Port [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Tom Duerbusch Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2007 3:01 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: Mini-survey: Linux usability Background... I started with SLES7 on z/VM 4.2 on a MP3000 H30. Now up to SLES9 on z/VM 5.2 on a z/890 plus an IFL. The initial, first, worst fight I had, had to do with installing from some media, on some other foreign (foreign to me, being a VM and VSE type for 30+ years). I first used Win/98 and mounted CDs there. I think I was using Samba. Eventually, I got the networking issues straight and I could install SLES7, which I did over an over (practice makes perfect and I was trying out different machine configurations). This was on a 10 mb LAN. 3-4 hours and it was done (I would be doing other work during this time.) A year passed. Time for some more images. SLES8 was now available. However, I was now on Win/2000. Samba didn't work so well. Many days of fighting this. Finally went to the FTP route. Got a freebie FTP server, and had many trials and tribulations in using it. Networking isn't my knowledge base. And SLES8 had different install options and features. Some nice, some good, but it all looked different. It took a lot of time to realize that I did know what I was doing. However, it still took me a long time to give up on the Samba option and go to a FTP server. Another couple years passed. SLES9 was now available. FTP didn't seem to work anymore. I never figured out what the problem was. But I could still install SLES8. So I created a FTP server from SLES8 to store the SLES9 images on. SLES9 didn't seem to install much differently then SLES8, and it was much faster (no vswitch at that time, just routed thru VM's TCPIP stack). We need something, that can take a dummy like myself and drop down a Linux image, preconfigured and preloaded with the Linux images so a person can do the install from a fast, reliable place. And then documentation on how to install a Linux image, based on this preconfigured/preloaded server. Plus, documentation on how to upload new Service Packs and new releases to this server. About as close to "free beer" as you can get, without actually having a beer <G>. Some of the many problems I hit, besides changing PC platforms: Some PC based software didn't understand the long file format of Linux. I think that was mostly on Win/98. I don't know if there is any PCs now that have that type of problem. The default FTP server in SLES8 is configured not to allow you to use that FTP server as a source for a SLES install. You have to "know" you need to change the FTP config file to allow this. My notes are: Joe /etc/vsftpd.conf Uncomment: Local_enable = yes Write_enable = yes Save Chroot_local_user=yes Required for ftp server for zLinux install During installation, when entered *s390x/sles9root*, it gets translated to */s390x/sles9root*. For install to work, it must remain in the suse9 subdirectory and not changed to be off of root. All the Redbooks on installing zLinux, assume that the servers you are using to install from, are properly setup. Well, this dummy, in which my FTP server experience was limited to the VM FTP server and the default configuration for the CSI FTP server on VSE, there was a lot of knowledge that had to be gained for a Linux FTP server, in order to make it useful. So I was in a Catch-22. My knowledge wasn't sufficient on FTP servers to configure one properly. However, to have a FTP server running to test with, I needed a FTP server to be running. Many times, I put it down and went to other projects for a few months. Then, comes "firewalls". >From my PC, I can basically do anything I need to. But not from the mainframe. YOU (Yast Online Update), just isn't going to work. The network guys are Windows oriented. They also have very major concerns about viruses. Rightly so, as when a virus hits our PC network (4,000 PCs in a City Wide WAN), it takes months to fix the problems. For access outside of the firewall, they want antivirus software installed. Which we don't have. What I keep thinking of, is some Windows based software, that can pull all the new fixes from Novell, and send them up to a "mirror" residing on zLinux for distirbution via YOU to my zLinux images. Doable...yes. Do I have time? No. It would be nice to have a drop in solution. And yes, we do have a Novell maintenance contract (and we had a SUSE one prior to that). Next topic: TAPE DRIVES Damn it. We are mainframe. We have Ficon and Escon attached tape drives. They may be behind a VTS. They may be managed by a robotic unit. They may be electronic or disk based. We have existing tape management systems. Try supporting them. Yes, there is the 3590/3490 drive support. To do what? Seems to be rather useless. I can do a TAR to them. Great. All zLinux products seem to want a scsi attached tape drive (FCP in the mainframe world). How about adding another 5,000 lines of code (to the reported 20,000 lines of IBM unique code) to allow a mainframe tape drive "look" like a FCP tape drive. Sure, it may not be the best performer. I will trade performance for something that is usable....NOW. Many of us can't justify buying FCP adapters, and more tape drives for some small Linux implementation. After the second or third IFL, there will be the money for the better tape hardware. Right now, at the City of St. Louis, we are looking at a general tape system upgrade for the 390 side plus tapes for the zLinux side. But there is no sharing, no consolidation. No bang for the buck. The IBM VTS requires 4 dedicated tape drives. Well to send things offsite, I can't use any of those 4 drives, I need more drives, just to produce offsite tapes. But then I can't use any of those drives for zLinux, I need more drives that are FCP attached. With a VTS handling the tapes, I really only need 2 real tape drives. Estimated busy (under 10% over a week). But it seems this "separate but equal" thing that is going on, I need 10 drives. (Of course IBM is a hardware company.) I don't mind acquiring 10 drives, as the need grows over a span of years, but upfront costs vs our budget, keeps sinking the tape upgrade project. And, keeps me from backing up zLinux, which keeps me from recommending zLinux applications from being put into production. Let me think awhile to see if there are any other major issues. Tom Duerbusch THD Consulting >>> Peter 1 Oberparleiter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 6/12/2007 11:46 AM >>> All, I'm currently involved in a discussion about how the usability aspect of Linux on the mainframe can be improved. For this reason I'd very much like to hear about your experience with installing, configuring and running Linux on System z. What has been your most annoying experience in this context? Where does the system (i.e. kernel, operating system tools, distributor tools, hardware interfaces, software installers etc.) behave in an unexpected way? It would also be helpful to know what system you worked with before Linux on the mainframe (e.g. zOS/zVSE/zVM/Unix/Windows/Intel based systems). Any reply on- or offlist is welcome. Thanks in advance! Regards, Peter Oberparleiter P.S.: Pointers to recent threads on this list (keywords or the like) are also welcome. -- Peter Oberparleiter Linux on System z Development IBM Deutschland Entwicklung GmbH ---------------------------------------------------------------------- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
