Linux-Advocacy Digest #351, Volume #26 Wed, 3 May 00 10:13:08 EDT
Contents:
Re: My question has still not been answered.Dance..Dance...Dance... ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: My question has still not been answered.Dance..Dance...Dance... ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: Applix 5.0 it's getting better! (Matthias Warkus)
Re: Are we equal? ("Edward L. Sandwicheater")
Re: QB 4.5 in Win 2000 (Arclight)
Re: Are we equal? (Donal K. Fellows)
Do us a favor and leave. (Was dreamers) ("[EMAIL PROTECTED]")
Re: The Dream World of Linux Zealots ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Linux NFS is buggy (Full Name)
Re: Is the PC era over? (abraxas)
Re: Do us a favor and leave. (Was dreamers) (abraxas)
Re: Linux NFS is buggy (abraxas)
Re: Dvorak calls Microsoft on 'innovation' (The Ghost In The Machine)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: My question has still not been answered.Dance..Dance...Dance...
Date: Wed, 03 May 2000 12:12:51 GMT
Thank you Leslie for a sane honest answer to my questions.
It's simply incredible to see some of the more rabid Linux users
dancing and avoiding a simple direct question and then attacking the
messenger when they have no answer, or the real answer does not show
Linux in a completely positive manner.
Some of these people would be doing Linux a big favor by NOT
advocating it because the end result is that they are making Linux
look bad and proving the argument that it is an operating system for
elitist programmer types.
I will let the thread die at this point.
On 3 May 2000 00:10:22 -0500, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Leslie Mikesell)
wrote:
>In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>So again for the 3rd time, prove me wrong and show me specifically how
>>much easier it is to set up:
>
>You really do have a point that most people haven't taken seriously
>here. I'd guess that like me, most of the people using Linux
>set it as their internet gateway long before Win98SE recently
>added the capability, and perhaps no one else has bothered to
>install that version since they don't need it.
>
>>1. Internet connection sharing.
>>2. Printer/scanner sharing with Linux/Windows mixed system.
>>3. Firewall (software based).
>
>You can buy the NetMax version with this stuff ready to go
>out of the box. Or the April 2000 Linux Journal has a
>couple of 3 page articles showing a couple of different
>ways to do it.
>
>>Again under Win98SE:
>>
>>1. Internet connection sharing:
>> Try help "how do I share my internet connection?" duhhhhhh
>
>This doesn't get installed by default, at least not on an
>upgrade from win95, so it isn't quite as obvious as you make
>it out to be. But, once you select it on the install CD and
>load it, it is simple enough.
>
>>2. Printer Sharing:
>> Click on Printers/Share Duhhhh again.
>
>Unless I've forgotten something, the smb.conf file in the
>redhat distribution automatically shares all the printers
>configured in the linux system if you activate samba.
>So Linux wins on this one.
>
>>3. Firewall:
>> Try Zonealarm which has been written up in just about every
>>magazine and trade rag. No configuration necessary. It blocks your
>>ports and informs you with a popup everytime something is trying to
>>gain access to your system. You have the option of giving access or
>>not. No need to type in all kinds of ip addresses although you can do
>>that if you wish also.
>
>This is built into the ipchains systems that controls the NAT
>operation so you don't need to find another utility. However
>you probably will have to paste the example from the documentation
>into your own control file.
>
>>So how does one go about doing this easily under Linux?
>>
>>It's very easy to do under Windows. Not one file to edit.
>
>You seem to be juxtaposing ease against editing files here.
>Why? Do you really not edit files on your computer? Or
>is there some conceptual hurdle to typing words?
>
>>So how about a direct rebuttal to prove me wrong instead of all of the
>>lame attempts at deflecting a direct question.
>
>Actually I think you are right, but only in the case where you
>are willing to accept defaults with no way to control them. And
>how often do you do this setup anyway? Even if the Linux setup
>requires editting a few files, you do it once following the
>steps in a 3 page article and it will run for years.
>
>>Is answering a direct question too difficult for the Linux people?
>
>Most Linux people probably haven't bothered to set up a Win98SE
>system - I only did it to make things work the same either way
>on a dual-boot machine. I have to admit I was surprised (shocked)
>that it actually worked after all the difficulty I have had
>with anything earlier from Microsoft dealing with any routing
>concepts. All it would take to duplicate the ease of configuration
>though (given the lack of choices) would be a few canned files
>and a script to activate demand dialing, dhcpd, ipchains, and
>perhaps a caching DNS server (I forget whether win98se has one
>or not - it should). I'd be surprised if someone hasn't already
>throw this together so you don't have to cut and paste from
>the documentation examples.
>
> Les Mikesell
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: My question has still not been answered.Dance..Dance...Dance...
Date: Wed, 03 May 2000 12:14:13 GMT
Every grandma sitting at home should have one.
Get real jedi...
I said easy to set up and home network....
On Wed, 03 May 2000 05:52:31 GMT, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (JEDIDIAH)
wrote:
>
> What if you don't use a serial modem? What if you'd
> rather use the serial modem for something else?
> What if you would rather bridge and use the upstream
> dhcp server instead? What happens if you want to use
> 2 NICs and isolate routable packets from non-routable
> ones? Does Win98SE get confused if you have no modem?
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Matthias Warkus)
Subject: Re: Applix 5.0 it's getting better!
Date: Tue, 2 May 2000 23:13:51 +0200
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
It was the Tue, 2 May 2000 21:59:33 +0200...
...and Mig Mig <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> > I've been using Applix for some time now. I tried Corel's WP Office and
> > was thinking of changing over. Then I tried Applix 5.0 and I'm back in
> > the Applix camp. Applix has cleaned up the look and the install. My KDE
> > menus were automatically updated. The "data" package can use "MySQL".
> > From what I can tell, the integration has improved and imports have
> > improved. All and all, every thing *I* need in a Office suite is there,
> > for less than $100. I'm still waiting to see if Koffice will have all I
> > need, If it does, I'll switch, if not, no sweat now that Applix has
> > improved so much.
>
> Dont wait for Koffice... unfortunattely it seems more or less dead.
> Kword has at the moment no mantainer since Reggie Stadlbauer will
> concentrate on Kpresenter and the version i have running - from end of
> february -is still very very buggy, so i i doubt they will have anything
> usable when KDE2 comes out.
> The problem seems to be lack of developers on Koffice. Sad!!
Yes. Verily so.
> Probably KDE at the moment has less than 1/3 of the developers of Gnome..
Very improbable, considering they had about four times as much as
GNOME in mid-1999.
> that could and will probably change very quick once Kylix is out.
Is Kylix KDE-specific? Eeeek...! Evil.
mawa
--
Whatever you can do, or dream you can, begin it. Boldness has
genius, power and magic in it
-- Goethe
------------------------------
From: "Edward L. Sandwicheater" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
alt.conspiracy,alt.conspiracy.area51,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,talk.politics
Subject: Re: Are we equal?
Date: Wed, 03 May 2000 12:25:52 GMT
JEDIDIAH wrote:
>
> On Tue, 02 May 2000 20:21:36 GMT, Edward L. Sandwicheater <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>wrote:
> >
> >
> >JEDIDIAH wrote:
> >>
> >> On 2 May 2000 18:01:51 GMT, abraxas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >> >In comp.os.linux.advocacy JEDIDIAH <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> On a closed isolated island with limited or no freedom of movement,
> >> >> that's rather difficult to establish really. There are certainly
> >> >> a significant a visible chunk of the population that feels it
> >> >> worthwhile to risk death and imprisonment to leave.
> >> >
> >> >Have you been to cuba?
> >>
> >> Are you trying to claim that the people that die trying to get
> >> off the island are doing so for naught? Occam's razor doesn't
> >> exactly go your way on this one.
> >>
> >How does Occams razor feel about the fact that the vast majority of
> >Cubans stay in Cuba? The most likely reason is that most people dont
>
> ...as they do in China, Albania and did in the Soviet Union.
>
> >want to leave. Obviously most Cubans support Castro and their
> >Revolution.
>
> That is far from obvious. The situation is far less simple
> than you make it out to be.
>
Oh , I see its not as simple as I make it sound but it as as simple as
you make sound......Youre the one making blanket statements here. A
typical right wing god fearing knee jerk reaction.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Arclight)
Crossposted-To: alt.lang.basic,alt.destroy.microsoft
Subject: Re: QB 4.5 in Win 2000
Date: Wed, 03 May 2000 12:49:54 GMT
On Tue, 2 May 2000 18:26:50 -0700, "Bob May" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>Go buy a new copy of Word for Windows 1.0.
>Go buy a new copy of Visual Basic 2.0
>YOU CAN'T!!!!! All you can buy is the newer versions of the programs
>which also cost a lot more than the earlier versions.
So? what's wrong with that?
TTFN
Arclight
Web Site:
http://www.daniel-davies.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Donal K. Fellows)
Subject: Re: Are we equal?
Date: 3 May 2000 13:07:10 GMT
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
Craig Kelley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] (JoeX1029) writes:
>> [...] Why should Elian be allowed to stay in the States? He should
>> have been back the same day he arrived here.
>
> His mother died brining him here.
While that is clearly a tragedy, how does that pertain to this
discussion? Are you going to claim that everyone whose mother dies in
the process of gaining illegal entry to a country should have the
automatic right to stay in that country? Elian is well below the age
of responsibility, so he didn't choose to go to the US. He was not
estranged from his father either.
To me, looking in from outside, it seems that the only reason that
there is any serious debate on this matter is because there is a
politically influential group of Cuban exiles in Florida who will do
virtually anything to get one back at Castro, no matter who they hurt
in the process. Everything I've read in several UK newspapers of
varying political persuasions has taken roughly equivalent lines. How
is this anything other than an unnecessarily cruel farce, with the
exiles as chief scallywags in this drama?
Donal.
--
Donal K. Fellows http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/~fellowsd/ [EMAIL PROTECTED]
-- I may seem more arrogant, but I think that's just because you didn't
realize how arrogant I was before. :^)
-- Jeffrey Hobbs <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
------------------------------
From: "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Do us a favor and leave. (Was dreamers)
Date: Wed, 03 May 2000 09:10:59 -0400
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
A person puts up a scenario and everybody attacks him. That really makes
a lot of sense in a group that is supposed to be advocating Linux. I use
Linux and I like it a lot, but I also use Windows and I know for a fact
that what he is trying to do is so much easier under Windows. It is not
as flexible nor powerful but you don't have to know an ip address from a
mac address to do it.
It would have been much more productive if the question was answered
with the focus on learning something and flexability instead of
attacking him for not being a Linux expert.
You so called advocates should really do us and Linux a favor if you
would simply leave this group because you are making the rest of us, and
we outnumber you by far, look bad.
Who would even want to try Linux after reading some of the responses
given?
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: The Dream World of Linux Zealots
Date: Wed, 03 May 2000 13:10:48 GMT
In article <8emusk$agm$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> > It will be YOUR kids that will have to go in circles trying to find
> > software that conforms to their college standards. It will be YOUR
> > kids that will have to explain Linux to all of the other kids as
well
> > as teachers in their school that will most likely be running
Windows.
> >
>
> Buzz Wrong again. I do not have ANY kids and unless there are some
major
> canges, it is quite impossible for me to have any. Once again your
close
> minded Wintroll(tm) assumtions prove that you are incapable of putting
> forth ideas that apply to MY needs.
I thought you homo types prefered MacOS.
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Full Name)
Subject: Linux NFS is buggy
Date: Wed, 03 May 2000 13:39:55 GMT
We have an Ultra 10 running Solaris 2.7 with a SCSI DAT Drive. We NFS
mount the users' files on a second Ultra, a Sparc 10, an old HP UNIX
box and an old SCO Intel box so they may be tar'd to tape.
About a month ago we introduced a Linux box (Mandrake 7.x) into the
equation. What a mistake! The backup stops at random locations
within the NFS mounted Linux file system. At first we thought the
tape drive was faulty and dragged a Sun technician out to replace it.
But the problems still recurred.
We spent a good fortnight getting NFS on the Linux box to work in the
first place. Now we find it's buggy.
The irony of this is that we are now looking at using a cron job to
use Samba to backup the users' files onto the NT box sitting on my
desk. We are hoping that Samba (unlike NFS) works reliably on Linux.
At this stage we are all quite fed up with this pile of crap you
people seem to think is God's gift to the IT industry.
No wonder they give the thing away.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (abraxas)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.lang.java.advocacy
Subject: Re: Is the PC era over?
Date: 3 May 2000 14:00:30 GMT
In comp.os.linux.advocacy Andrew Carpenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> My previous point still stands though. If Sun (or anyone) wants to
> return to dumb terminals, they'd better do it *really* cheap, not just
> slightly cheaper than a PC. What is the benefit?
You get to run X11 natively. Thats a pretty big benefit.
> A cheap Celeron could run a VNC client, for example, and achieve the
> same result, while still providing local processing capabilities for
> applications which might need it. (VNC -
> http://www.uk.research.att.com/vnc/index.html)
VNC is ok for remote managment, but horrible for everything else. If I
want to be able to stream a 2d wireframe rotation on a Sun Ray, I can do
it with no problems at all. Such a thing isnt possible under VNC.
=====yttrx
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (abraxas)
Subject: Re: Do us a favor and leave. (Was dreamers)
Date: 3 May 2000 14:02:30 GMT
[EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> A person puts up a scenario and everybody attacks him. That really makes
> a lot of sense in a group that is supposed to be advocating Linux. I use
> Linux and I like it a lot, but I also use Windows and I know for a fact
> that what he is trying to do is so much easier under Windows. It is not
> as flexible nor powerful but you don't have to know an ip address from a
> mac address to do it.
If you cannot look at an IP address and a MAC address and see the
breathtaking difference between them, you probably need to be doing
something that doesnt involve computers.
=====yttrx
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (abraxas)
Subject: Re: Linux NFS is buggy
Date: 3 May 2000 14:03:50 GMT
Full Name <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> At this stage we are all quite fed up with this pile of crap you
> people seem to think is God's gift to the IT industry.
You're not implementing it correctly. Linux is a fine workstation OS, and
not very good for most other things.
=====yttrx
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (The Ghost In The Machine)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.lang.java.advocacy
Subject: Re: Dvorak calls Microsoft on 'innovation'
Date: Wed, 03 May 2000 14:04:55 GMT
In comp.os.linux.advocacy, Luke Webber <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote on Wed, 3 May 2000 16:23:18 +1000
<8eoglr$2ilv$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>The Ghost In The Machine wrote in message ...
>[snip]
>>There is none, there. However, innovations abound elsewhere.
>>X (The X Window System, that is, but I'll just call it X
>>for the sake of brevity :-) ), for instance, was "innovated"
>>in the mid-80's; TCP/IP was created in the early to mid-80's
>>by the Woolongong group, IIRC.
>
>
>Cripes I hope not! No, TCP/IP originated at Berkely. The Wollongong Group
>just put out a commercial implementation called something like
>Pathway/Access. It always struck me as being very expensive for what it was,
>especially since it sprang out of work done at the University of Wollongong
>(that's an industrial city south of Sydney, BTW).
Hmm...noted. I'll admit, Wollongong sticks in my mind, but I do wonder.
>
>
>[snip]
>>Hardware for Unix has always been a problem. One issue with Unix
>>is that it bangs on hardware very hard (Windows 9x merely taps it
>>more lightly), because of the inherent multitasking/multiuser nature
>>of Unix, and Linux as well.
>
>Not from where I sit. You can still run Linux comfortably on a 486 with
>16Mb, which can't be said for any modern version of Winblows.
Hm, perhaps I should rephrase that. One issue with Windows is that
it hits the hardware in a certain way, but Linux hits it in quite a different
way; occasionally, "deficiencies" show up in Linux because of this (they've
probably been there all along, of course).
>
>[snip]
>>It is clear that Microsoft OS provides sufficient value added for
>>the public to purchase it outright. It is *not* clear that the Linux
>>OS provides sufficient value for an *uneducated* public to acquire
>>it for free [*].
>
>Agreed. Linux admin is simply too much of a black art. Not that Winblows
>admin is always a cakewalk, but Linux, and Unix in general, really does need
>to pull its socks up. A good start might be to begin keeping all those many
>configuration files in one central config directory off /etc rather than
>scattered all over the disk, but a GUI admin tool is really the only answer.
>Even something along the lines of HP's SAM, AIX's SMIT and SCO's SCOADMIN
>would be a huge improvement. And it'd be nice if the effort could be
>translated to a *standard* tool, so we didn't have to treat each version of
>Unix so differently.
There is 'linuxconf'. I don't use it myself, though.
I do like the idea of putting everything under /etc, though, or perhaps
/var/[directory]/whatever, where [directory] is e.g. named.
>
>Cheers,
>Luke
>
--
[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Linux. It runs NT (with vmware) and Java.
What more does one need? :-)
------------------------------
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