Linux-Advocacy Digest #590, Volume #29 Wed, 11 Oct 00 02:13:04 EDT
Contents:
I'd rather switch than fight. (Jim Broughton)
Re: Why is MS copying Sun??? (John Lockwood)
Re: The Power of the Future! (Tim Martin)
Re: [OT] Bush v. Gore on taxes ("Aaron R. Kulkis")
Re: [OT] Bush v. Gore on taxes ("Aaron R. Kulkis")
Re: I'd rather switch than fight. ("Aaron R. Kulkis")
what defines a paradigm (Richard)
Re: welcome to the world of objects (Steve Mading)
Re: Linux Sucks (Steve Mading)
Advocacy NGs == Trollvilles (Cannon Fodder)
Re: Hotmail been down most of the day (Steve Mading)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Jim Broughton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: I'd rather switch than fight.
Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 04:52:22 GMT
I finally could not put up with the quagmire that is
Redhat linux. After running it for a year it finnaly
pissed me off with its rewritten init files and scripts
that led me all over the system trying to get things to
work the way they should work. So now I am running
Slackware 7.1. after some initial issues with the
install program not wanting to install lilo correctly
the system is up and running rock solid.
The real killer is now that I am running slackware
the sound for KDE now works. Under Redhat it resisted
all attempts. Sound for Gnome works too.
Another thing I do not miss is RPM. Slackware has a
very good package managment system as well based on
the .tgz (tar gziped file packages) that is every bit
as effective as RPM. (slack still has it I just don't
use it.)
The only problem I have with Slackware is its use of
the BSD style system init. Although It can if need be
use the SysVinit scripts it is a kludged in operation
at best.
One of the weird things I find is the lack of people
desperatly seeking help in the NG's (well a little on
slackwares own ng) like comp.os.linux or alt.os.linux.
oh yes and q3 and UT both run great.
--
Jim Broughton
Using Slackware Linux v7.1
(The Amiga OS! Now there was an OS)
If Sense were common everyone would have it!
Following Air and Water the third most abundant
thing on the planet is Human Stupidity.
------------------------------
From: John Lockwood <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.arch,alt.conspiracy.area51,comp.os.netware.misc,comp.protocols.tcp-ip,comp.lang.java.advocacy
Subject: Re: Why is MS copying Sun???
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 22:23:19 -0700
On Tue, 10 Oct 2000 21:20:49 -0500, "Erik Funkenbusch"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>"Peter da Silva" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
>news:8rtf3u$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>> In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
>> John Lockwood <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> > 3) Notepad is a trivial windows application. (Defined as an
>> > application a good Windows programmer could complete in a week or
>> > two).
>>
>> Are you saying that you would expect a good Windows programmer to take a
>> week or two to implement Notepad? Is that a reasonable estimate of the
>> time it would take for a program like that?
>
>Actually, Notepad is an app that should only take any decent developer a few
>hours to write.
>
>The vast majority of notepad's functionality is provided by the windows edit
>control. The rest is just writing the text to disk, Searching in the text,
>and adding a help box.
>
>
So it takes less time. Even better. My point was that it was trivial.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 22:27:08 -0700
From: Tim Martin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Crossposted-To:
comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: The Power of the Future!
Dolly wrote:
> OK, if you want... though others here have supported
> my claim already and I thought you had
> agreed with it finally.
>
> Dolly
No one should believe anything you claim Dolly. You made
up a statement, placed quotes around it, and attributed it to
me. I asked for an apology but you refused. In fact, you have
spent countless messages taunting and flaunting your lie
and seeking the approval of others for your actions.
You are a liar Dolly. You said you would take legal action
against me if I continued to call you a liar. I took your dare.
I said take legal action.
Once again Dolly, you are a liar.
------------------------------
From: "Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Subject: Re: [OT] Bush v. Gore on taxes
Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 01:29:51 -0400
"." wrote:
>
> In comp.os.linux.advocacy Aaron R. Kulkis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > "." wrote:
> >>
> >> In comp.os.linux.advocacy Aaron R. Kulkis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >> > Loren Petrich wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, STATIC66
> >> >> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> > On Mon, 09 Oct 2000 05:04:05 GMT, Loren Petrich <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >> >> > wrote:
> >> >> > >In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Aaron R. Kulkis
> >> >> > ><[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> > >> Purdue out-of-state tuition is NOT subsidized, and I wasn't
> >> >> > >> getting anything from my parents, either.
> >> >> > > Cry me a river. I presume that you reimbursed the government for the
> >> >> > >cost of military training also.
> >> >> > Yes I did, with hard work, sacrifice and months and months away from
> >> >> > my family, whilst you enjoyed the freedoms I was protecting.
> >> >>
> >> >> Enjoy feeling sorry for yourself. Did you pay in MONEY???
> >>
> >> > Loren, you owe every serviceman a LOT more than what you have paid
> >> > them. If it was not for us, you would be the impoverished subject
> >> > of some totalitarian regime.
> >>
> >> Hah. If it wasnt for you sitting in a comfortable chair in front of
> >> some kind of 'communications' console? You arent FIGHTING, friend, you're
>
> > My "office" is my rucksack. I'm the commo NCO with an infantry line company.
> > you know...where the fucking battle is.
>
> >> (if youre in the reserves, especially) wimping out.
>
> > Sorry, Loser, but you're behind the times...about 2 fucking decades,
> > to be exact.
>
> > If you're in the reserves, you are MORE likely to go to war than
> > in the Regular army. Why? Because the US Army Reserves hold nearly
> > all of the logistic units required to fight a protracted war. The
> > remainder are in the National Guard... almost ZERO are in the active
> > duty army.... General Abrams (for whom the tank is named) deliberately
> > broke up the army like this, so that never again could another bunch
> > of politicians get the nation mired in another fiasco like Viet Nam...
> > Therefore, he made it IMPOSSIBLE to fight a protracted war without
> > mobilizing the Guard and Reserve.
>
> > Reserve troops have been mobilized in large numbers for EVERY war
> > except the Viet Nam War.
>
> > Nearly 100$% of state militia units saw combat in the Civil War.
> > 75% of the combat troops in Cuba and the Phillipines in the Spanish-American
> > war were State Militia and Reservists
> > 90% of National Guard and Reserve divisions saw combat in WW1
> > 90% of National Guard and Reserve divisions saw combat in WW2
> > 80% of the Combat units in the Korean War were National Guard
> > 95% of the logistical units in the Gulf War were National Guard and Reserve.
> > If the Gulf war had lasted 2 weeks longer, National Guard troops would have
> > composed 2/3 of the COMBAT troops in theater.
>
> > For your info. When I was in 1-138th ADA (Stinger), Lafayette, Indiana,
> > our unit had the HIGHEST weapons recertification rate in the entire army,
> > we set the range record on the Ballistic Aerial Target range (using
> > obsolete Redeye missiles, no less!), and in general pissed off the cadre
> > at Fort Bliss because we were more proficient soldiers than our Regular
> > Army counterparts.
>
> > Currently, the majority of the US Army Bosnia is 49th Armored Division,
> > Texas National Guard. In fact, the ENTIRE US Army, Bosnia force is
> > under the command of the 49th Armored Division commander....who is,
> > of course...a National Guard officer.
>
> Wow, you sure are touchy about the army, arentcha.
No...just pointing out that you are a typical no-nothing idiot spouting
off about matters of which you have not a shred of comprehension nor
understanding of the actual real-world state of affairs.
>
> >> You are a coward
>
> > Why don't you tell us about the last time YOU saw machine gun bullets
> > flying mere inches above your head....
>
> You tell me first. :)
Somewhere in the desert in Iraq...
>
> > Tell us about the last time YOU felt the concussion of a grenade's shock wave.
>
> Ah, alright well that can and indeed does happen during some kinds of weapon
> training, granted.
And you haven't even had that...
>
> > How many dead bodies have YOU seen?
>
> Ah, I may have an unfair-non-military advantage of having worked closely
> with a coroner in college for a study.
and of course, you were right there when they became dead, were you....
>
> >> and an idiot.
>
> > Then your intelligence must be down with the snails.
>
> Because I think youre an idiot, im stupid.
Yes. Stupid people regularly fail to recognize intelligence.
>
> I think I understand.
Not nearly as well as everyone else.
>
> -----.
--
Aaron R. Kulkis
Unix Systems Engineer
ICQ # 3056642
http://directedfire.com/greatgungiveaway/directedfire.referrer.fcgi?2632
H: "Having found not one single carbon monoxide leak on the entire
premises, it is my belief, and Willard concurs, that the reason
you folks feel listless and disoriented is simply because
you are lazy, stupid people"
I: Loren Petrich's 2-week stubborn refusal to respond to the
challenge to describe even one philosophical difference
between himself and the communists demonstrates that, in fact,
Loren Petrich is a COMMUNIST ***hole
J: Other knee_jerk reactionaries: billh, david casey, redc1c4,
The retarded sisters: Raunchy (rauni) and Anencephielle (Enielle),
also known as old hags who've hit the wall....
A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
B: Jet Silverman plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a
method of sidetracking discussions which are headed in a
direction that she doesn't like.
C: Jet Silverman claims to have killfiled me.
D: Jet Silverman now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
...despite (D) above.
E: Jet is not worthy of the time to compose a response until
her behavior improves.
F: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
G: Knackos...you're a retard.
------------------------------
From: "Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Subject: Re: [OT] Bush v. Gore on taxes
Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 01:31:21 -0400
"." wrote:
>
> In comp.os.linux.advocacy Static66 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > On 10 Oct 2000 21:21:38 GMT, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (.) wrote:
>
> >>In comp.os.linux.advocacy Aaron R. Kulkis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >>> Loren Petrich wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, STATIC66
> >>>> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> > On Mon, 09 Oct 2000 05:04:05 GMT, Loren Petrich <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >>>> > wrote:
> >>>> > >In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Aaron R. Kulkis
> >>>> > ><[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> > >> Purdue out-of-state tuition is NOT subsidized, and I wasn't
> >>>> > >> getting anything from my parents, either.
> >>>> > > Cry me a river. I presume that you reimbursed the government for the
> >>>> > >cost of military training also.
> >>>> > Yes I did, with hard work, sacrifice and months and months away from
> >>>> > my family, whilst you enjoyed the freedoms I was protecting.
> >>>>
> >>>> Enjoy feeling sorry for yourself. Did you pay in MONEY???
> >>
> >>> Loren, you owe every serviceman a LOT more than what you have paid
> >>> them. If it was not for us, you would be the impoverished subject
> >>> of some totalitarian regime.
> >>
> >>Hah. If it wasnt for you sitting in a comfortable chair in front of
> >>some kind of 'communications' console? You arent FIGHTING, friend, you're
> >>(if youre in the reserves, especially) wimping out. You are a coward
> >>and an idiot.
> >>
> > No you sir are an idiot.
>
> > You do not have the faintest clue. A man with a rifle is just that. An
> > army without logistic services and communication is worthless..
>
> > I happen to be what is know as an " F.O." forward observer. I (part of
> > a 4 man team) am dropped ahead of the front line by helo (or put on a
> > beachhead and then hike my ass and 200 lbs of gear inland) Then I sit
> > on a hill and rain steel down upon the enemy. that is to say
> > coordinate air strikes, call artillery strikes, adjust their fire
> > until the target is DEAD. Call in navel guns, etc etc.
>
> > so do not talk to me about cowards.
>
> I wasnt talking to you in the first place.
Of course not. You're the type of idiot who thinks that field radio
operators sit behind a "console"
Exactly how the fuck is an Radio-Operator supposed to lug this
"console" around in his backback?
>
> -----.
--
Aaron R. Kulkis
Unix Systems Engineer
ICQ # 3056642
http://directedfire.com/greatgungiveaway/directedfire.referrer.fcgi?2632
H: "Having found not one single carbon monoxide leak on the entire
premises, it is my belief, and Willard concurs, that the reason
you folks feel listless and disoriented is simply because
you are lazy, stupid people"
I: Loren Petrich's 2-week stubborn refusal to respond to the
challenge to describe even one philosophical difference
between himself and the communists demonstrates that, in fact,
Loren Petrich is a COMMUNIST ***hole
J: Other knee_jerk reactionaries: billh, david casey, redc1c4,
The retarded sisters: Raunchy (rauni) and Anencephielle (Enielle),
also known as old hags who've hit the wall....
A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
B: Jet Silverman plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a
method of sidetracking discussions which are headed in a
direction that she doesn't like.
C: Jet Silverman claims to have killfiled me.
D: Jet Silverman now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
...despite (D) above.
E: Jet is not worthy of the time to compose a response until
her behavior improves.
F: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
G: Knackos...you're a retard.
------------------------------
From: "Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: I'd rather switch than fight.
Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 01:32:49 -0400
Jim Broughton wrote:
>
> I finally could not put up with the quagmire that is
> Redhat linux. After running it for a year it finnaly
> pissed me off with its rewritten init files and scripts
> that led me all over the system trying to get things to
> work the way they should work. So now I am running
> Slackware 7.1. after some initial issues with the
> install program not wanting to install lilo correctly
> the system is up and running rock solid.
> The real killer is now that I am running slackware
> the sound for KDE now works. Under Redhat it resisted
> all attempts. Sound for Gnome works too.
> Another thing I do not miss is RPM. Slackware has a
> very good package managment system as well based on
> the .tgz (tar gziped file packages) that is every bit
> as effective as RPM. (slack still has it I just don't
> use it.)
> The only problem I have with Slackware is its use of
> the BSD style system init. Although It can if need be
> use the SysVinit scripts it is a kludged in operation
> at best.
> One of the weird things I find is the lack of people
> desperatly seeking help in the NG's (well a little on
> slackwares own ng) like comp.os.linux or alt.os.linux.
Because there is a lack of people desperately seeking help in the NG's.
>
> oh yes and q3 and UT both run great.
>
> --
> Jim Broughton
> Using Slackware Linux v7.1
> (The Amiga OS! Now there was an OS)
> If Sense were common everyone would have it!
> Following Air and Water the third most abundant
> thing on the planet is Human Stupidity.
--
Aaron R. Kulkis
Unix Systems Engineer
ICQ # 3056642
http://directedfire.com/greatgungiveaway/directedfire.referrer.fcgi?2632
H: "Having found not one single carbon monoxide leak on the entire
premises, it is my belief, and Willard concurs, that the reason
you folks feel listless and disoriented is simply because
you are lazy, stupid people"
I: Loren Petrich's 2-week stubborn refusal to respond to the
challenge to describe even one philosophical difference
between himself and the communists demonstrates that, in fact,
Loren Petrich is a COMMUNIST ***hole
J: Other knee_jerk reactionaries: billh, david casey, redc1c4,
The retarded sisters: Raunchy (rauni) and Anencephielle (Enielle),
also known as old hags who've hit the wall....
A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
B: Jet Silverman plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a
method of sidetracking discussions which are headed in a
direction that she doesn't like.
C: Jet Silverman claims to have killfiled me.
D: Jet Silverman now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
...despite (D) above.
E: Jet is not worthy of the time to compose a response until
her behavior improves.
F: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
G: Knackos...you're a retard.
------------------------------
From: Richard <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: what defines a paradigm
Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 05:35:57 GMT
FM wrote:
> Any language with a decent type system and natural support
> for runtime polymorphism is OO, and as such, OO becomes a
And then you claim to understand paradigms.
Paradigms aren't delimited by features but by concerns.
Anyone who doesn't understand that fact can't understand
paradigms; what shapes them, what /causes/ them. They can
only "know" paradigms from a grunt's perspective; they
may even understand how to *apply* them but that's just
not the same thing as being able to extend them, or even
recognize when they're being extended. It's the difference
between genuine understanding and rote memorization. It's
the difference between using the term "paradigm" in its
Kuhnian sense and using it as meaningless marketing hype.
The OO paradigm is concerned with updateable state and
data while the functional paradigm is concerned with the
relationships that apply between data. The height of the
latter is declarative functional programming. The height
of the former hasn't been explored yet.
> matter of whether instances of user-defined types can be
> made subject to runtime polymorphism. A "purer" OO approach
> would include applying the same principles to the primitive
Whatever. You claim to understand OO yet you use the term
to refer to something completely different from what its
inventor had in mind and what legions of people still have
in mind. You side with the grunt C++ programmer morons who
try to do the least amount possible and offer them platitudes
so they can feel good about jacking off. It's like calling
a janitor a "custodial engineer" even though what they do
has absolutely nothing in common with engineering. Actually,
it's a lot worse than that; it's like calling an *incompetent*
janitor a "custodial engineer"!
Runtime polymorphism hardly qualifies as a paradigm.
Even if it did, it would be a piss-poor one and hardly
worth the massive vomit-inducing hype it has generated
among the hordes of C++ losers. Hey, even Stroustrup has
admitted that much.
> What is this "procedural paradigm" that treats objects and
> functions equally? You mean your assembler?
C treats functions and data types on an equal basis. It
treats them both like crap but it treats them equally.
Both primitive types and procedures are treated as special
cases. And both are equally powerless implementation-bound
low-level horrors. In OO, the data side is raised to a new
level while the function side is left behind. In functional
programming, it's data that's left to wither and die.
You can't even begin to imagine what an ideal language
that combines both OOP and FP would be like if you think
in terms of "what happens if we add this feature to that".
Maybe they're incompatible because they cross-cut each
other and to someone who can think on that level, AOP
provides a tantalizing hint of the answer. Or maybe not.
------------------------------
From: Steve Mading <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: welcome to the world of objects
Date: 11 Oct 2000 05:34:10 GMT
Richard <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
[snip]
Fine, whatever. There's a certain point where terms
become so far abstracted from their real-world connections
that communication becomes a mushy, messy sea of confusion.
Your posts have reached that point. I'm tired of it. I'm
done. I don't fully "grok" philosophy for the same reason.
After a while the debates are about words whose connection
to real pragmatic things is impossible to trace.
In other words, I'm not replying to your points because I
can't figure out what they even are supposed to be.
------------------------------
From: Steve Mading <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Linux Sucks
Date: 11 Oct 2000 05:36:50 GMT
Ingemar Lundin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
: "Steve Mading" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> skrev i meddelandet
: news:8s06pu$nec$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
:> [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
:> : You guys are all so out of your minds it's incredible. Whatever the
:> : semantics involved (ie:Linux is the kernel), it is a fact that Linux
:> : is trying to compete with Windows for the desktop simply by virtue of
:> : the number of Windows program look a likes as well as kde and Gnome.
:>
:> Why assume that anything with a titlebar and a rectangle is an imitation
:> of Windows? That's really ignorant. By that logic, Windows is just
:> an imitation of a Mac. (And incedentally, the themes in kde and
:> gnome allow it to look like just about anything - Windows, Mac,
:> Nextstep, etc. To say that it is a Windows look-alike in light of
:> this is pure ignorance.)
: and that is exactly what hardcore linux geeks are saying...
Please back up this assertion with enough citations to show
that this is something that they are doing. (One or two
individuals isn't enough to back up such a sweeping
generalization).
------------------------------
From: Cannon Fodder <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Advocacy NGs == Trollvilles
Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 05:42:29 GMT
'Nuff said
--Trolling about trolling,
>From A Troll
hehehe
------------------------------
From: Steve Mading <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Hotmail been down most of the day
Date: 11 Oct 2000 05:43:16 GMT
David M. Butler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
: [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
:> I just posted it because I knew they would fall over themselves trying
:> to add it to their pile of twisted "facts".
:>
:> And they operated true to form!
: Please tell me by "they" and "their" you only mean the loud, obnoxious
: folk that swear that Linux is God and MS is going to die in 2 days... the
: rest of us tend to be sensible, and usually don't bother getting into these
: little arguments. Which is why, I suppose, that it appears that "we" have
: a pile of twisted "facts", eh? :P
It's a common unconsious predjudice to mistakenly believe everyone in
an "opposing" camp think and ack alike. This predjudice leads to
such accusations of two-facedness when the fact that people aren't
all the same starts to surface.
------------------------------
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End of Linux-Advocacy Digest
******************************
