Linux-Advocacy Digest #671, Volume #29 Sun, 15 Oct 00 13:13:03 EDT
Contents:
Re: Suggestions for Linux (elmig)
Re: Double standards around here :( (Terry Porter)
Re: A classic example of unfriendly Linux (Terry Porter)
Re: Linux Sucks ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Bush v. Gore on taxes( Reefer For President!)
Re: A Public Service Announcement
Re: Linux Sucks
Re: Why is MS copying Sun??? (T. Max Devlin)
Re: Suggestions for Linux (The Ghost In The Machine)
Re: Why is MS copying Sun??? (T. Max Devlin)
Re: Why is MS copying Sun??? (T. Max Devlin)
Re: A classic example of unfriendly Linux (T. Max Devlin)
Re: Astroturfing ("Chad Myers")
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (elmig)
Subject: Re: Suggestions for Linux
Date: 15 Oct 2000 15:32:12 GMT
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (unicat) wrote in <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>I hate to say this, old friend, but you'e pretty much the poster boy for
>the kind of user that is holding linux back from wider acceptance.
>
>Doing away with the CLI would not kill Linux, and it wouldn't
>mean rewriting a thing. You would simply be invoking the current
>command set through icons and menus within X-windows.
start linux with xdm. All will be in graphics mode. Use xterm. Use gnome. Use
KDE.
elmig
http://www.alunos.ipb.pt/~ee3931
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Terry Porter)
Subject: Re: Double standards around here :(
Reply-To: No-Spam
Date: 15 Oct 2000 15:35:44 GMT
On Fri, 13 Oct 2000 18:42:24 GMT, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>It seems we have different standards around here.
>
Bwahhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!! :)))
Um "Steve/Heather/Amy/Keys88 or Claire_Lynn"
Is it "double" or "different" standards you mean ????
In any event, as a long term Wintroll in COLA for at least 3 years, one who
fraudulently alters his headers and name, including gender swapping, who are
you to speak about "standards" ????
You use the same re hashed material, the same tired old methods. Only a new
audience can appreciate your posts. That in itself hightlights your nonsense,
that "Linux isnt going anywhere", cause if it wasnt, youd be elsewhere ?
I think Linux is going to be around long enough for me to be arguing with
this Wintroll, well into his dotage :))
>Claire
--
Kind Regards
Terry
--
**** ****
My Desktop is powered by GNU/Linux, and has been
up 11 hours 22 minutes
** Registration Number: 103931, http://counter.li.org **
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Terry Porter)
Subject: Re: A classic example of unfriendly Linux
Reply-To: No-Spam
Date: 15 Oct 2000 15:41:37 GMT
On Sat, 14 Oct 2000 13:05:22 GMT, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>Now you know why I posted under the name "Steve" for a year or so.
>
>claire
"Steve/Heather/Amy/Keys88" or whoever you are, changing your name doesnt help,
as your Wintroll style is so easy to recognise.
>
>
>
Kind Regards
Terry
--
**** ****
My Desktop is powered by GNU/Linux, and has been
up 11 hours 22 minutes
** Registration Number: 103931, http://counter.li.org **
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Linux Sucks
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 15:49:44 GMT
On 15 Oct 2000 15:22:38 GMT, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Terry
Porter) wrote:
>>Of course Linux stands on it's own, and there is certainly a
>>contingent of Linux supporters that want to keep it that way and to
>>not try and compete with home use desktop Windows.
>Hahahahah, only Wintroll "Linux users" like you "Steve".
Read /. some day.
The "leave Linux to the geek" contingent far outnumbers the "compete
with Win desktop" contingent.
You need to get out more.
>Linux strengths are widespread, in both server, and desktop areas, do I really
>need to give you the list again, (for the 1000 time) "Steve" ?
How about some home user desktop strengths, excepting cost?
Remember we are talking average Jane here, not some geek running
Emacs.
>>>> but Linux
>>>>is not taking any market share away from the Windows desktop.
>>>Linux took my Windows95 market share off my pc in 1997.
>>
>>So we have been told, about a 1000 times already.
>Some people need a lot of repetition "Steve", and your one of them.
Typical for the Linonuts, like you, to compare an ancient version of
Windows to a current version of Linux.
At least I am running a current version of Linux.
Mandrake 7.1, soon to be 7.2 if you will.
And in fact I am running an older version of Windows 98 SE and it
still blows the doors off of Linux.
>>>Bull, Ive had a lady friend using Linux the last 3 weeks, before that she had
>>>*never* seen Linux. She loves it, uses Xchat to IRC and is amazed how much
>>>easier it is than mIRC under Windows98. In fact she rues the day that she
>>>upgraded from Win95 to Win98.
>>
>>If she did a migrate instead of a fresh install, she should. That was
>>a nightmare.
>Who said anything about a install ???
>She didnt install, migrate, or fly south for the winter ;-)
An upgrade implies an install somewhere along the line. Unless she got
a new machine pre loaded.
I liked Linux as well when I first started using it but the novelty
wore off as soon as I took a look at how much extra work I had to do
just to perform simple tasks.
Reading news offline is one of them.
Printing was another. And don't bother to tell me about your boat
anchor IBM printer you bought at some flea market. We have heard it
all before.
>Shes a user, plain and simple, its using Win98 she hates!
I'll bet if you put her in front of 2 machines one running Win95 and
the other running Win98 she wouldn't even know the difference.
>>
>>If she's happy, that's great.
>>Does she run DVD's?
>Nope, and shes back home using her Windows98 box again, it was my Linux
>pc she used for 4 weeks. All I did was create a account for her, and let her
>choose from one of 4 window managers on my system (she chose XFWM), after that
>she used the system easily.
I think you are FOS... just by the fact that you say she chose XFWM..
What were the other 3 choices?
>Yes I do, Linux is an excellent desltop system imho.
Maybe for you..
>>
>A meaningless statement, from the Wintroll "Steve".
So what have you said so far?
A summary:
I had a lady friend stay with me for four weeks and since I didn't
have a Windows PC available for her to use, she was forced to use my
Linux PC. And of course she loved it beyond her wildest imaginations.
Now she is home and back with her miserable Win98 pc..Booo hooo!
>>just as quickly because it requires more effort to do less than what
>>they can do under Windows.
>Please "Steve" at least put a *little* effort into this ??
>* More effort to do less of what ?
Browsing for one.
Plug ins that websites require that don't work with Netscape for
Linux.
Waiting until someone out of the goodness of their heart writes a
driver for your hardware.
Etc..
>Hahahahah, how much effort was required to earn the money to purchase Windows,
>and pay for the never ending "upgrade" path ?
Time is money.
>How much effort was required to upgrade the hardware to run "new" versions
>of Windows ?
I don't run a new version.
>How much effort was required to pay for the software they needed, which is
>probably available (equivalent or better) under Linux for *free* ?
Ahh but it isn't available.
How about groupware?
>How much effort was required to reload Windows, when the registery became
>corrupted, or a virus totaled their sustem ?
Never had a problem.
And when fsk takes hours to not fix your hard drive?
>How much effort was required to discover someone using their Windows pc, via
>Netbus or similar ?
ZoneAlarm.
Free.
And how many hours did you spend reading How-To's to set up your
firewall?
>
>
>"Steve" you havent improved your techniques since I was last reading this
>group, perhaps its time for a holiday, I hear the English countryside is good
>for that kind of thing ?
And you haven't proved one point.
>Perhaps your owners at IBM will give you a few weeks off ?
?????
I'm in business for myself.
Claire
>>
>>
>>claire
>
>
>--
>Kind Regards
>Terry
------------------------------
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Subject: Bush v. Gore on taxes( Reefer For President!)
Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 16:14:10 GMT
REEFER FOR PRESIDENT!
(Ronald Regan? now that was a president....)
------------------------------
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: A Public Service Announcement
Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 16:16:52 GMT
but not Slackware....hehehehehehehe... ;)
"." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> skrev i meddelandet
news:8s9t0m$q1h$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> > Taken from the firewall group:
>
> >
****************************************************************************
**
>
> > Linux Advisory Watch is a comprehensive newsletter that outlines the
> > security vulnerabilities that have been announced throughout the week.
> > It includes pointers to updated packages and descriptions of each
> > vulnerability.
>
> > This week, advisories were released for mod_rewrite, mod_php3,
> > tmpwatch,
> > traceroute, boa, esound, usermode, gnorpm, openssh, apache, and
> > cfengine.
> > The vendors include Caldera, Conectiva, Debian, FreeBSD, Immunix,
> > LinuxPPC, Mandrake, SuSE, and Trustix. It is critical that you update
> > all
> > vulnerable packages to reduce the risk of being compromised.
>
> > http://www.linuxsecurity.com/vuln-newsletter.html
>
>
> >
****************************************************************************
******
> > Looks like it's been a busy week.
>
> Indeed. It may be of note that at the very least, linux users are
immediately
> notified of security issues.
>
> "That vulnerability is completely theoretical."
> -- Microsoft
>
>
>
>
> -----.
>
------------------------------
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Linux Sucks
Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 16:22:48 GMT
hmm.. yeah Mac is a girlie computer... ;)
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> skrev i meddelandet
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> I can finally see why. I bought my daughter an iMac as a present for
> her graduation from middle school in June. It is a wonderful machine
> that I should have bought a long time ago.
>
> She wouldn't go near the Windows machines, but I can't get her away
> from the Mac.
>
> claire
>
>
> On Sat, 14 Oct 2000 03:34:09 GMT, "Les Mikesell"
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> >
> ><[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> >news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> >> I agree with that, but the same could be said of a Commodore-64, or an
> >> Atari.
> >
> >Or a Mac.
> >
> >> When setup properly Linux is no more difficult to use than any other
> >> system assuming that the application base contains everything the
> >> person needs.
> >>
> >> The problem arises when changes need or want to be made. A newer
> >> scanner or printer, or software that exists only in the Windows world.
> >> Maybe the person want's to try AOL (God help them) or one of the free
> >> isp's.
> >
> >Odd, you never hear Mac people complaining about not being
> >able to use all that great Windows stuff....
> >
> > Les Mikesell
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >
> >
>
------------------------------
From: T. Max Devlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.lang.java.advocacy
Subject: Re: Why is MS copying Sun???
Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 12:25:45 -0400
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Said Darin Johnson in comp.os.linux.advocacy;
>[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Matt Kennel) writes:
>
>> One source is stupid business magazine platitudes and slogans like,
>>
>> "Business Is War"
>>
>> No it's not! That's a repulsively immoral statement. We should
>> wisely craft our economic system for the benefit of society.
>
>Off topic, but I wonder if that statement came about in 19th century
>England or Europe. For quite some time, "war" was not considered a
>vast horror perpetrated by or against evil men. It was closer to
>being a patriotic sort of thing, expand and maintain the empire. War
>was fought over land, prestige, imagined insults, and webs of
>alliances. And over economics of course. War was a gentlemanly
>thing! (where gentleman meant aristocrat of course)
I don't know what history you are reading, but well before the 19th
century, the American Ben Franklin said "there never was a good war or a
bad peace." I think you mistake the fact that aristocrats didn't
actually fight in wars for the idea that wars were civilized.
>"War" then is a tactical and strategic game played by gentlemen.
In which the common people suffer and die for the private gain of
aristocrats who were anything but gentlemen.
>So in that context, "business is war" takes on a different meaning.
>So do people who say that today to describe what they do use the
>strategy/tactics meaning, or do they use the death/despair meaning?
A bit of both, obviously; it is meant to convey the idea that greedy
aristocrats don't care how much death and despair they cause in
following their strategy/tactics for destroying other aristocrats (or,
should we say, killing their peasants.)
--
T. Max Devlin
*** The best way to convince another is
to state your case moderately and
accurately. - Benjamin Franklin ***
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------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (The Ghost In The Machine)
Subject: Re: Suggestions for Linux
Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 16:32:32 GMT
In comp.os.linux.advocacy, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote
on Sun, 15 Oct 2000 15:26:44 +0100
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>> >3) We need to add superior functionality to the Linux GUI, like
>> > the "Halflife" game, with openGL and 3-D icons for linux functions-
>> >
>> > a) A restaurant. F'rinstance, you boot linux, and you see a first
>> > person view of yourself walking into a restaurant. You sit at a
>> >table,
>> > and tux the penguin walks over and hands you a menu. The menu has
>> > linux programs grouped on pages with clickaable tabs. You click a
>> >tab for
>> > say, graphics, and a page turns to all the graphics programs . You
>> >click
>> > on a menu selection to start up the corresponding function.
>> > b) An office building. You find yourself walking down a hallway,
>> > each door leads to either a room or another hallway. Rooms are
>> > directories with representational 3-D icons for files (like a TV
>> >for viewing
>> > animations, or a filing cabinet full of documents, each of which is
>> >
>> > a spearate manilla folder). Hallways are directories of
>> >directories.
>> > We could produce a tool like a .wad file editor to allow users to
>> > customize the 3-D environment.
>>
>> You've got to be kidding me.
>
>
>
>I remember discussing something like a doomlike file manager with my
>brother. Shoot to delete, etc, but it never got this far |
> |
> \|/
>
>
>
>
>
>
>>
>> I've fantasized (and did little else) regarding a DOOM-type environment
>> which would allow one to walk into various rooms (directories) and
>> pick up stuff (files) and drop them in other directories, or into
>> executable rooms. Read-only directories would have all the crates
>> locked down; directories without search capability would cage the
>> user so that he can see, but not explore; directories without read
>> capability would have the lights turned off, but the user would
>> have a Thingy that would allow him to type in the name of an
>> object; symbolic links are transporters or strange-looking
>> crates with whirly effects (broken links kill you or are a nasty-looking
>> dark pool in a crate);
>
>But if it's not a borken link, the process will only get telefragged :-)
>
>> executables are doors to little rooms with a
>> display (an X server) on one wall and a few controls on another
>> ("RESTART PROCESS", perhaps); to manipulate the windows on that
>> display, use the mouse on the display wall; to type, point the mouse
>> at the keyboard, then start typing on your keyboard.
>
>Corruped areas of the hard disk can have flickering lights and floors
>that do damage (unless you have a rad suit, of course).
Heh...although identifying them might be a bit tricky in a modern
Unix system.
>
>
>>
>> Or one can shoot the keyboard, display, or control area with
>> a handgun, a shotgun, or a rocket launcher, which kills the process
>> with various signals and kick one back into the central process
>> dispatch area, which is a special room, probably /proc, or maybe
>> /proc/processes if anyone ever gets around to implementing that.
>>
>> Keyboard gun shoot = SIGINT;
>> control gun shoot = SIGQUIT;
>> display gun shoot = XKillClient();
>> shotgun blast = SIGTERM;
>> rocket blast = SIGKILL.
>
>ROFL! What does the BFG9K do then? patch /proc/kcore? to remove all
>trace of the process?
Oh...forgot that one! :-) I suspect one could blast the BFG9K
in the /proc room and kill all processes belonging to the user
(except the DOOM one itself -- whoops!).
Of course, the BFG9K is only available to registered users of DOOM.
This could be a minor problem in itself.
I'm not sure what the plasma gun would do, either. And then there's
the chainsaw, fists, and beserker mode.
>
>
>
>> Hope your benefits are paid up! :-)
>>
>> The mountpoints might be in open sky, in a nice green, grassy field,
>> maybe with a bunny rabbit's head staked in the ground. :-)
>> Or one can start in the dungeons at one's home directory, which would
>> be a different color perhaps to distinguish it. A nice homey yellow,
>> maybe, with a clock on the wall and a little doggie, and a desk
>> in one corner with an "In" and "Out" basket. (Anyone remember BOB?)
>>
>> Others have actually implemented (rather silly, IMO) DOOM-type "games"
>> where each process is mapped into a sergeant (complete with
>> floating PID); to kill a process, one shoots the sergeant. One
>> drawback is that the DOOM code occasionally has sergeants shooting
>> at each other. It's a bug.
>
>I have to have this. Where can I get it?
According to Yahoo (and "SHELL EXTENSION CITY"), the DOOM System
Administration Tool is at
http://www.cs.unm.edu/~dlchao/flake/doom/
which timed out when I tried to fetch it. I know of no mirrors.
>
>It wasn't a bug. Sargents were meant to shoot at each other, in DOOM.
It wasn't a bug in the game. But it definitely looks like a bit
of a bug in a sysadmin tool. :-)
>
>You could have the lot really. Caco-daemons and of course, the
>cyber/spider-daemon as the mother of all daemons (would that be init?).
>Zombies could be zombie processes etc etc.
Heh. Yeah, "cacodaemon" would be a good monster for the system daemons. :-)
>
>> Still others -- Xerox? -- have had hypothetical concepts such as
>> hanging directory trees, movable walls, and such for a while;
>> these might be nice visual aids, but that's about it.
>>
>> To all this, I say "What's the point?" What's really happening are
>> magnetic domains -- or, if you prefer, bits -- are being moved around
>> in an organized way. Maybe I'm old school, but I prefer
>>
>> "mv afile ../bdir"
>>
>> to
>>
>> "go into that room there, walk to the crate with the 'afile' sticky on it,
>> and click on it, opening it. Now grab it.
>>
>> You now have it in your inventory. Now go back to the lift
>> and push the 'Up' button. You should see another room; locate
>> the door named 'bdir', walk though it. Now drop the 'afile' crate there."
>
>Only pausing to blash the hell out of the other users on the system, if
>they were trying to access the same file.
*chuckles*
Thus passing from the realm of mere file administration into an
interesting 3D interactive game. :-) (Well, maybe interesting to
hardened gamesters, perhaps.)
>
>> More intuitive, perhaps, but it gets tedious after awhile, I would think!
>> Although it might appeal to the gaming set, especially if there's
>> a wandering Glitch monster which zaps things at random.
>> (Yeah, that'll really help the seccy get *her* work done!)
>>
>> There's also the issue of grabbing a door. Hmm...what's wrong
>> with this metaphor, eh? :-)
>>
>
>
>It sounds fun, for about 5 minutes. Just browsing files could give you a
>game of doom, if you are on a multiuser system. Now that sounds like
>fun.
>IMO Quake would be better (more configurable), but less atmosphere.
If one were serious about this, the freeware could use DOOM (for now),
but one could in principle have a ball with Unreal's engine; it's
very rich in texture. (Unfortunately, I think it has occasional
stability problems.)
I think Quake I lost a bit of personality when it decided to forego
the background music.
Oh well.
[.sigsnip]
--
[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- who still prefers the Unix 'kill' to the
DOOM kill, for system management :-)
------------------------------
From: T. Max Devlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.lang.java.advocacy
Subject: Re: Why is MS copying Sun???
Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 12:44:03 -0400
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Said Simon Cooke in comp.os.linux.advocacy;
>"T. Max Devlin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
>news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>> Said Simon Cooke in comp.os.linux.advocacy;
>> >"T. Max Devlin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
>> >news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>> >> The bizarre part is that I can't for the life of me figure out where
>> >> anyone got the idea that a vendor *isn't* actually *supposed* to try to
>> >> make their product compatible with everybody else's, regardless of
>their
>> >> market share.
>> >
>> >Up to a point, it's counter productive to do so. Why would anyone do so
>if
>> >it costs more?
>>
>> Because it increases the value of their product and broadens their
>> potential customer base to include the customers of their competitor's
>> products, obviously.
>
>Not necessarily, actually. Up to a point, it costs more to provide that
>compatibility than you get as a return.
Perhaps your imagination is not all the support which might be required
for this bald statement.
>Which means you don't do it -- in
>much the same way that if you won't make a profit doing something,
>businesses won't do it. Unless they're nonprofit charities, of course.
Well, you seem to be arguing against yourself; your supposition that
businesses do thinks because they will make a profit doing it is in
direct contrast to the fact that monopolistic businesses avoid making a
profit on something if it threatens their monopoly.
>> >If people will pay for that compatibility, then software will
>> >get written that's compatible.
>>
>> Which is to say that if software is written that's compatible, people
>> will pay for it.
>
>No; that's an IF vs. IFF statement.
>
>If software is written that is compatible with other software, people will
>pay for it.
>If software is written that isn't compatible with other software, people
>will pay for it.
Only if they don't have a better alternative. I don't know what 'IFF'
is supposed to be, but basically you're provided the same regressive
logic (or lack there of) which you started with. You seem to be
assuming that consumers of software do not desire compatibility because
Microsoft, in maintaining their illegal monopoly, has prevented them
from having it.
>One does not necessarily exclude the other.
The fact that one is true does not necessarily make the other anything
more than your empty supposition.
>> Thus, writing compatible software has a economic
>> advantage over writing incompatible software. It is only in the
>> monopolistic strategy that this does not hold true.>
>No, it doesn't necessarily have that advantage.
>
>Look at the bottom line:
>It costs more to develop a compatible version of something than one that
>doesn't care.
You presume that there is something other than development causing
things to be uncompatible to begin with. Does it cost more to write
software which works compatibly than software that does not? Probably,
just as it costs more to write software that works than does not.
>All business decisioins are based on profit. Therefore, the profit from the
>compatible version must be higher than the profit from the incompatible
>version for it to be created.
And the question is why the obvious requirement for compatibility is
being ignored by Microsoft. The answer is because they don't have to,
as you point out. The post script is the fact that this is related to
the fact that they are an illegal monopoly, who has sufficient market
power to ignore the requirements of the users, who still are locked in
to buying the monopoly product when it doesn't even begin to fulfill
their requirements, which always include compatibility to some extent or
other.
[...the remainder of your childish attempt at using supply and demand
to explain monopoly behavior is snipped, as it is repetitive and
pointless...]
--
T. Max Devlin
*** The best way to convince another is
to state your case moderately and
accurately. - Benjamin Franklin ***
======USENET VIRUS=======COPY THE URL BELOW TO YOUR SIG==============
Sign the petition and keep Deja's archive alive!
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------------------------------
From: T. Max Devlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.lang.java.advocacy
Subject: Re: Why is MS copying Sun???
Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 12:47:02 -0400
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Said Darin Johnson in comp.os.linux.advocacy;
>"James A. Robertson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>
>> Consumers have made a
>> <choice> to favor Windows. One can argue that it was a poor choice (I
>> would), but it was a freely made choice - mostly because other vendors
>> cheerfully allowed MS to take the high volume/low price end of the
>> market as they chose to take the high margin/low volume end.
>
>Maybe it's the boss that made the choice? Ie, the home user may have
>decided what to buy, but the office user is told what to use.
Home users, being the less informed of the two, generally, simply buy a
computer, and get Windows pre-loaded. There is no choice for them, just
as there is no economically feasible choice for the office user, since
Microsoft has locked in the application developers to help maintain the
monopoly. (And the less intelligent of them are so happy to go along
with this plan that they actively argue how it is a good thing.)
--
T. Max Devlin
*** The best way to convince another is
to state your case moderately and
accurately. - Benjamin Franklin ***
======USENET VIRUS=======COPY THE URL BELOW TO YOUR SIG==============
Sign the petition and keep Deja's archive alive!
http://www2.PetitionOnline.com/dejanews/petition.html
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From: T. Max Devlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: A classic example of unfriendly Linux
Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 12:51:33 -0400
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Said [EMAIL PROTECTED] in comp.os.linux.advocacy;
>I have sent your post to that person and thank you, but my point is
>this.
>
>"You" know how to do this stuff.
>He, and just about every other newbie who tries Linux does not. Notice
>his comment about this topic being rehashed a lot? That's because it
>is NOT easy compared to Windows.
No, that's because they already know 'how to do it' (or, more properly,
that it isn't feasible to try to do) in Windows. People who know both
ways (Linux = configure some text files/ Windows = click in some dialogs
and cross your fingers and reboot a lot) would probably agree that Linux
is easier, unless they have some religious (i.e., spawned-by-ignorance)
worship of clicking in dialogs over text editing.
--
T. Max Devlin
*** The best way to convince another is
to state your case moderately and
accurately. - Benjamin Franklin ***
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From: "Chad Myers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Astroturfing
Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 16:49:54 GMT
"lyttlec" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Mike Byrns wrote:
> >
> > lyttlec wrote:
> >
> > > MS had to change the name. Now its Microsoft Certified Software
> > > Professional.
> >
> > No. They didn't. It's not changed at all. See
> >
>http://www.microsoft.com/trainingandservices/default.asp?PageID=mcp&PageCall=mc
se&SubSite=cert>/mcse&AnnMenu=mcse
> >
> I'm only going by the titles of the *current* edition of books on the
> shelves at B&N and Borders. I've noticed that MSCE has been replaced by
> MSCP.
Book titles by which publisher?
Microsoft Press still refers to it as MCSE.
http://mspress.microsoft.com/findabook/list/subject_category_T.htm
If you go to:
http://www.microsoft.com/trainingandservices/default.asp?
PageID=mcp&PageCall=mcse&SubSite=cert/mcse&AnnMenu=mcse
(URL wrapped for readability)
You'll see that the certification is still titled MCSE.
Given the facts, I'd say that you're lying or grossly misinformed.
-Chad
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