Linux-Advocacy Digest #888, Volume #29 Sat, 28 Oct 00 07:13:02 EDT
Contents:
Re: Ms employees begging for food (T. Max Devlin)
Re: MS Hacked? (Donn Miller)
Re: Oh Drrresssssssssssssstin......was [Re: MS Hacked?] (Donn Miller)
Re: [OT] Bush v. Gore on taxes ("Aaron R. Kulkis")
Re: Why don't I use Linux? (Gardiner Family)
Re: Linux (George Richard Russell)
Re: Linux (Matthias Warkus)
Re: Linux (Matthias Warkus)
I'm sick and tired of you (was: Linux) (Matthias Warkus)
Re: Linux (Matthias Warkus)
Re: Linux (Matthias Warkus)
Re: Ms employees begging for food ("Aaron R. Kulkis")
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: T. Max Devlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.arch,comp.os.netware.misc
Subject: Re: Ms employees begging for food
Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2000 04:53:04 -0400
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Said Caveman in comp.os.linux.advocacy;
>In article <T6KH5.28$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
>Weevil <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
[...]
>The main reason Linux is unmarketable is that it has no demonstrable
>discipline behind its development and delivery.
I'd have to disagree. Computer manufacturers are what provide
"development and delivery" of most OSes, due to the "demonstrable
discipline" of profit motive. The main reason Linux is "unmarketable"
(unsuccessful in competing against the monopoly) is the pre-load
contracts which prevent OEMs from taking advantage of the tremendous
efficiencies involved from their end of supporting any code not from
Microsoft, quite apart from any lingering fear anyone may have about
open source code itself, or the GPL.
>As for giving things away as a business strategy, AT&T was pretty
>smart about giving away UNIX. What's on your desktop if you're
>not running NT? Once USL entered the picture, [...]
In point of fact, AT&T was powerless to do anything *but* give Unix
away. They were legally prevented from making profit on it! This
restriction came from the "Ma Bell" arrangement of the time, in which
the U.S. Government allowed AT&T to exclusively profit from providing
telephone service, provided a) they provided universal service, and b)
they didn't make profit from any other line of business. That's the
only reason they gave Unix away, so to speak; they couldn't do anything
else with it, and it provided them an advantage, if not profit, to have
universities using their source code. Quite a bit like a forerunner of
GNU itself, in a way.
>While Gates is a gambling junkie and a shark, I would place most of
>the blame for sleaze at Balmer's feet.
Gates is a megalomaniac. Balmer is just the criminal bastard who
realized he could use that to make them both billionaires.
--
T. Max Devlin
*** The best way to convince another is
to state your case moderately and
accurately. - Benjamin Franklin ***
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From: Donn Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: MS Hacked?
Date: 28 Oct 2000 03:48:00 -0500
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Maybe Billy should buy Symantec so he can set up a good
> antivirus/trojan program?
Or, maybe he'll install FreeBSD on his internal machines like he did with
Hotmail. You've gotta wonder how many machines at Microsoft are actually
running a Microsoft OS. I'll bet there are a few FreeBSD, Linux, and/or
Solaris machines in there.
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------------------------------
From: Donn Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Oh Drrresssssssssssssstin......was [Re: MS Hacked?]
Date: 28 Oct 2000 03:51:10 -0500
Aaron R. Kulkis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Dreeeeeesssssssssssssssssssssssssssstinn
> Where are you, you little fucking WEASEL???
Ah, you mean po0k's alter-ego? I'd be willing to bet that po0k was really
Drestin. Look at their posts sometime - their grammar and spelling are
identical. But then again, I though Chad Mulligan was really Bill Gates, so
what do I know....
- Donn
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------------------------------
From: "Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,soc.singles
Subject: Re: [OT] Bush v. Gore on taxes
Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2000 05:15:46 -0400
Anonymous Remailer wrote:
>
> aaron wrote:
> > Loren Petrich wrote:
> > >
> > > In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Aaron R. Kulkis
> > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > >
> > > > You leftists are ALWAYS using "laudable goals" to excuse DESTRUCTIVE RESULTS.
> > >
> > > While you right-wingers are proud of being Evil People?
> >
> > I'm a Libertarian.
>
> who supports the government's jihad against microsoft...
Government has it's place.
Protecting free markets is one of them. The list of actions which Microsoft
has committed to DENY all competitors anything even resembling a free market
is appalling.
If you were buying, say, a Ford, and decided that you wanted to upgrade the
Firestone tires to Goodyear, would you consider it right that you would have
to pay Ford for *both* the Firestone tires that were not being install on
your car IN ADDITION to the Goodyear upgrade?
This little shenanigan was such a slam-dunk case, that even after stalling
the original party (Digital Research) for years, until they essentially went
bankrupt and was purchased by a 2nd companny (Caldera), and they STILL
settled with Caldera for a substantial sum.
> jackie 'anakin' tokeman
>
> STOP THE TROLLOCAUST
>
> NEVER AGAIN!
>
> men fear thought as they fear nothing else on earth - more than ruin, more
> even than death
> - bertrand russell
--
Aaron R. Kulkis
Unix Systems Engineer
ICQ # 3056642
http://directedfire.com/greatgungiveaway/directedfire.referrer.fcgi?2632
H: "Having found not one single carbon monoxide leak on the entire
premises, it is my belief, and Willard concurs, that the reason
you folks feel listless and disoriented is simply because
you are lazy, stupid people"
I: Loren Petrich's 2-week stubborn refusal to respond to the
challenge to describe even one philosophical difference
between himself and the communists demonstrates that, in fact,
Loren Petrich is a COMMUNIST ***hole
J: Other knee_jerk reactionaries: billh, david casey, redc1c4,
The retarded sisters: Raunchy (rauni) and Anencephielle (Enielle),
also known as old hags who've hit the wall....
A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
B: Jet Silverman plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a
method of sidetracking discussions which are headed in a
direction that she doesn't like.
C: Jet Silverman claims to have killfiled me.
D: Jet Silverman now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
...despite (C) above.
E: Jet is not worthy of the time to compose a response until
her behavior improves.
F: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
G: Knackos...you're a retard.
------------------------------
From: Gardiner Family <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Why don't I use Linux?
Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2000 22:26:20 +1300
So, hypothetically speaking, if Linux did all you wanted and more you would
replace Windows with Linux?
matt
Pete Goodwin wrote:
> Why haven't I switched from Windows to Linux?
>
> In a word: Software.
>
> There are packages on Windows for which there are no equivalents on Linux
> that I can see as yet.
>
> Borland Delphi and C++ Builder are two of these packages. They are going
> to appear on Linux, but not yet.
>
> Paint Shop Pro is a cheap graphics package that beats any of the free
> packages I've seen on Linux.
>
> Word is not my favourite tool and there is Star Office on Linux.
>
> Excel is a pretty good spreadsheet - I've not really tried anything
> on Linux.
>
> Digiguide is a TV listing guide available for the UK. Is there any
> equivalent for that on Linux, again UK based?
>
> My sound card, an ESS Allegro is not supported by Linux.
>
> 3D Sound is not available on Linux.
>
> USB devices are not fully supported on Linux - my USB ZIP 250 drive and HP
> scanner are not supported. Is there anything for my USB Intel WebCamera?
>
> XNews is a news reader on Windows; there are plenty of news readers on
> Linux.
>
> My US Robotics 56k modem is supported on both Windows and Linux, no
> problem there.
>
> CD writing is supported on Windows and Linux, though I've not
> tried it on Linux.
>
> I use WinZIP - what's the Linux equivalent? gzipped tar archives!
>
> I have a Series 5 Psion - is there connection software on Linux for it?
>
> Unreal Tournament is on both platforms; the lack of 3D sound on Linux
> is a problem. Same with Quake III Arena.
>
> Firewall software exists on both Windows and Linux; I use ZoneAlarm
> on Windows. Is there something as easy to setup and use on Linux?
>
> What would make me switch to Linux?
>
> The unreliability of Windows 98 SE. I'm not talking about Windows NT or
> 2000 here, just 95/98/ME. My system is currently getting crankier every
> day. I put up with it because of the lack of software on Linux but I
> could try switching to Windows 2000. Everything I've mentioned above
> works on Windows 2000 (except possibly CD writing and the scanner, dunno
> about those).
>
> --
> Pete Goodwin
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (George Richard Russell)
Subject: Re: Linux
Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2000 09:49:55 GMT
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Terry Porter wrote:
>>for the PC industry. Its strengths are offset by inertial forces beyond
>>its control, i.e. Microsoft.
>Nonsense, Microsoft is irrelevant to Linux.
Yup. Whatever. Most desktops will not convert until MS ports its applications
over.
Face it, just the its *different* whinge will stop much migration.
>Since when was Microsoft a "server os" ????
Hold old is NT? Remember OS/2? Xenix?
>It may have escaped your attention but Quake was developed on Linux!
And Doom on NeXTStep, and DOOM 3 will be developed on MacOS X.
Carmack is a NeXT fan more than a Linux fan. He also likes the MS IDE.
>>But both in terms of marketing and technology, I see no future for Linux
>>as a mass-market, consumer-friendly OS.
>DTG dont seem to share your thoughts, in fact they observed Linux usage
>was increasing at 180% per annum.
Cheap servers != Desktop usage.
George Russell
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Matthias Warkus)
Subject: Re: Linux
Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2000 12:15:10 +0200
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
It was the Sat, 28 Oct 2000 01:25:59 GMT...
...and Brandon Van Every <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > Computer enthusiasts are the smaller market, the ones who want
> >
> > They are the trend setters and the peole who other people go to for
> > advice! I advise Linux now.
>
> They aren't "trend setters," they're a subspecies of computer user that
> has existed since the dark ages of computerdom. A rareified and
> distinguished clan. The trend setters are the AOL idiots who buy a
> computer for $500 to get on the Internet.
However, *every* AOL idiot there is knows some guru they will run to
if something goes wrong. And the number of gurus who will, if annoyed
sufficiently, try to make the idiot switch to Linux just to solve
their problems once and for all and save their precious time is
increasing constantly :)
> > Other than the fact that it will become cheaper to manufacture
> > PC's with linux as an OS Thus the entry level PC's for the lower
> > income will move to linux as the embeded market has already!
>
> People pay money for ease of use.
Nope, they don't. People pay money for buzzwords, high clock
frequencies and cool design.
> Also, ease of use costs development dollars.
Yeah. That's why we are seeing companies such as Eazel, Inc. (where
many ex-Apple interface designers work) work on well-designed free
software for Linux.
mawa
--
die Wochentage St�dte w�ren...
...dann w�re der Donnerstag Kaiserslautern.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Matthias Warkus)
Subject: Re: Linux
Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2000 12:06:21 +0200
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
It was the Sat, 28 Oct 2000 05:21:24 GMT...
...and Brandon Van Every <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> (2) Debian may or may not have a decent package management
> scheme as compared to the Windows InstallShield world.
You think InstallShield is a *decent* *package* *management* system?
ROTFL.
mawa
--
reflectors. Used solely in floor cleaner commercials.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Matthias Warkus)
Subject: I'm sick and tired of you (was: Linux)
Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2000 12:03:51 +0200
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
It was the Fri, 27 Oct 2000 22:47:03 GMT...
...and Brandon Van Every <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> But both in terms of marketing and technology, I see no future for Linux
> as a mass-market, consumer-friendly OS.
Shut up, would you? Your babbling won't do any good or bad. I've seen
people make this statement again and again ever since I read this
group, and magically, Linux has in the same time not shown any signs
of slowing down on its way towards becoming exactly that: A
mass-market, consumer-friendly operating system.
Early in the eighties, we had a text editor and some odd tools. They
said we'd never have a compiler.
Late in the eighties, we had a compiler and a complete set of Unix
tools. They said we'd never have a kernel.
Early in the nineties, we had the complete foundation for a Unix
system, including the kernel. They said we'd never have a friendly
user interface.
Later in the nineties, we had a Unix system with several wonderful
friendly graphical user interfaces. They said we'd never have an
office suite.
Now it's 2000, and we've got three office suites. What are you going
to say now? That what we've got isn't important, and that what really
counts is accounting packages, video editing software or educational
software, which we'll never have, of course? That we'll never have
games? That we'll never have Winmodem or Winprinter support?
Aren't you seeing a pattern? People have been pronouncing free
software dead again and again, ever since its inception. And frankly,
free software doesn't give a damn about them and just keeps going.
mawa
--
A programmer knowing only Visual Studio will be lost at sea with vi /
make / cli. Now, you can argue that Grandma shouldn't need to know
esoterics like what an include search path is, and how to set it, but
programmers get no sympathy from me. -- Brian Hurt
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Matthias Warkus)
Subject: Re: Linux
Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2000 12:10:59 +0200
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
It was the Sat, 28 Oct 2000 05:03:54 GMT...
...and Brandon Van Every <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > virus eaten
>
> "Virus eaten?" You realize it's virus eaten solely because it's got the
> mass market volume, right? Trust me (but I'm sure you won't), if Linux
> were as popular as Windows you'd see plenty of viruses for it. Better
> under-the-hood engineering does not magically confer an immunity to
> viruses. It just makes them a little harder to write. Which makes it a
> little more fun for an enterprising hacker to write them.
On a Unix system, a user-space program cannot circumvent the
permission system. There is great potential for Trojan horses and a
little less potential for worms on Unix, but almost none for viruses.
But it's all a thing of the past. Melissa, ILOVEYOU and such have been
Windows' Great Internet Worm. We've had our Great Worm in 1986 IIRC,
and now have quite well hardened the system.
mawa
--
reflectors. Used solely in floor cleaner commercials.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Matthias Warkus)
Subject: Re: Linux
Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2000 12:18:24 +0200
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
It was the Sat, 28 Oct 2000 05:29:45 GMT...
...and Brandon Van Every <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> That all work as advertized and don't require technical wizardry to
> fix when things blow up?
*No* operating system works as advertised. Every product requires
wizardy when something breaks. You should know that.
Linux is a bit on the fair side here because there is no advertising
for Linux, since Linux is not a product.
mawa
--
llo." zu sagen, die weder arrogant noch tuffig klingt.
------------------------------
From: "Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.arch,comp.os.netware.misc
Subject: Re: Ms employees begging for food
Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2000 06:45:13 -0400
"T. Max Devlin" wrote:
>
> Said Caveman in comp.os.linux.advocacy;
> >In article <T6KH5.28$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
> >Weevil <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> [...]
> >The main reason Linux is unmarketable is that it has no demonstrable
> >discipline behind its development and delivery.
>
> I'd have to disagree. Computer manufacturers are what provide
> "development and delivery" of most OSes, due to the "demonstrable
> discipline" of profit motive. The main reason Linux is "unmarketable"
> (unsuccessful in competing against the monopoly) is the pre-load
> contracts which prevent OEMs from taking advantage of the tremendous
> efficiencies involved from their end of supporting any code not from
> Microsoft, quite apart from any lingering fear anyone may have about
> open source code itself, or the GPL.
>
> >As for giving things away as a business strategy, AT&T was pretty
> >smart about giving away UNIX. What's on your desktop if you're
> >not running NT? Once USL entered the picture, [...]
>
> In point of fact, AT&T was powerless to do anything *but* give Unix
> away. They were legally prevented from making profit on it! This
> restriction came from the "Ma Bell" arrangement of the time, in which
> the U.S. Government allowed AT&T to exclusively profit from providing
> telephone service, provided a) they provided universal service, and b)
> they didn't make profit from any other line of business. That's the
> only reason they gave Unix away, so to speak; they couldn't do anything
> else with it, and it provided them an advantage, if not profit, to have
> universities using their source code. Quite a bit like a forerunner of
> GNU itself, in a way.
>
> >While Gates is a gambling junkie and a shark, I would place most of
> >the blame for sleaze at Balmer's feet.
>
> Gates is a megalomaniac. Balmer is just the criminal bastard who
> realized he could use that to make them both billionaires.
And they'll both wind up swinging from a rope.
>
> --
> T. Max Devlin
> *** The best way to convince another is
> to state your case moderately and
> accurately. - Benjamin Franklin ***
>
> ======USENET VIRUS=======COPY THE URL BELOW TO YOUR SIG==============
>
> Sign the petition and keep Deja's archive alive!
>
> http://www2.PetitionOnline.com/dejanews/petition.html
>
> -----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
> http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
> -----== Over 80,000 Newsgroups - 16 Different Servers! =-----
--
Aaron R. Kulkis
Unix Systems Engineer
ICQ # 3056642
http://directedfire.com/greatgungiveaway/directedfire.referrer.fcgi?2632
H: "Having found not one single carbon monoxide leak on the entire
premises, it is my belief, and Willard concurs, that the reason
you folks feel listless and disoriented is simply because
you are lazy, stupid people"
I: Loren Petrich's 2-week stubborn refusal to respond to the
challenge to describe even one philosophical difference
between himself and the communists demonstrates that, in fact,
Loren Petrich is a COMMUNIST ***hole
J: Other knee_jerk reactionaries: billh, david casey, redc1c4,
The retarded sisters: Raunchy (rauni) and Anencephielle (Enielle),
also known as old hags who've hit the wall....
A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
B: Jet Silverman plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a
method of sidetracking discussions which are headed in a
direction that she doesn't like.
C: Jet Silverman claims to have killfiled me.
D: Jet Silverman now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
...despite (C) above.
E: Jet is not worthy of the time to compose a response until
her behavior improves.
F: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
G: Knackos...you're a retard.
------------------------------
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