Linux-Advocacy Digest #230, Volume #30 Tue, 14 Nov 00 11:13:06 EST
Contents:
Re: Linux 2.4 mired in delays as Compaq warns of lack of momentum ("Chad Myers")
Re: 2.4 Kernel Delays. (Roberto Alsina)
Re: Linux 2.4 mired in delays as Compaq warns of lack of momentum ("Chad Myers")
Re: A Microsoft exodus! (Ketil Z Malde)
Re: A Microsoft exodus! (Pascal Haakmat)
Re: Most important computer program in the history of humanity (sfcybear)
Re: We will never know what the MS intruder did (Ketil Z Malde)
Re: Uptime -- where is NT? (sfcybear)
Re: Most important computer program in the history of humanity (Mike Raeder)
Re: Uptime -- where is NT? (Mike Raeder)
Re: Uptime -- where is NT? (Donavon Pfeiffer Jr)
Re: Most important computer program in the history of humanity
Re: Disapointed in the election (Tim)
Re: Same old Linux..Nothing new here... ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: Same old Linux..Nothing new here... ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: Same old Linux..Nothing new here... ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: True GTK+ will eliminate Qt in next few years? ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: Same old Linux..Nothing new here... ("Mike")
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "Chad Myers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Linux 2.4 mired in delays as Compaq warns of lack of momentum
Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 13:51:57 GMT
"Ketil Z Malde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> "Chad Myers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>
> >> Well, Linux is being used by plenty of enterprises, so it's beyond
> >> "enterprise ready".
>
> > It is? How so? Please provide examples.
>
> I am using it, in an enterprise. I know people who use it in
> enterprises. More visibly, there are possibly more web sites hosted
> on Linux than on any other OS - you'll disagree, I know, but I suspect
> even you have to admit there are *some*.
ROFL... do you even know what "enterprise" means?
Running a Linux box as a network monitor or some other meanial task does
not really constitute it running as the enterprise.
I'm talking big tasks (of which Linux falls flat on its face) like
running a multi-hundred-gigabyte database, running a SAP application
server, PeopleSoft, BAAN, or any number of enterprise ERP, SRP, MRP-
type applications.
It can't. Why not? Because there are so many built in design flaws
in the Linux kernel alone (not to mention 3rd party add-ons) that it
would choke.
Examples? Lack of multithreading in the networking stack that serializes
all TCP/IP traffic on one NIC and practically halts the OS during heavy
traffic loads. Lack of large file support in the filesystem and lack of a decent
replacement filesystem that is thoroughly tested and widely accepted.
-Chad
------------------------------
From: Roberto Alsina <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: 2.4 Kernel Delays.
Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 14:01:03 GMT
In article <2V2Q5.126339$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
"Bruce Schuck" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> "Roberto Alsina" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:8ubsa6$nd7$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > In article <8u8vle$4ns$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
> > "Ayende Rahien" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > >
> > > "Roberto Alsina" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > > news:8u6epd$7qu$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > >
> > > > And anyway, you are ignoring what I *did* write. Even if the
windows
> > > > sources survive, almost all knowledge about said sources is
> > concentrated
> > > > in Redmond. I doubt that if all that knowledge disappeared, the
> > > > remainder would be enough to keep developing windows further, at
> > least
> > > > without a very long hiatus.
> > >
> > > 90% of the desktop market is a good enough reason, I would
imagine.
> >
> > Sure, never claimed reasons were lacking.
> >
> > > And according to OSS supporters, the hiatus wouldn't be felt,
would
> > it?
> > > Since MS takes so long to release something anyway.
> >
> > Well, if you were told tomorrow that the next version of windows
would
> > come in 2006, and be done by nearly none of the people that wrote
the
> > current one, after they endure extensive training into learning how
to
> > tangle with the 20+ millions of code in the product, how much of
your
> > business would you bet on it?
>
> The next version of Windows will be out in 2001. It will merge the
best of
> Win2K and the best consumer aspects of Windows Me. And programmers
from both
> versions are working on it.
I suppose the whole idea of this being a hypothetical case went
completely over your head :-P
> On the other hand, the next version of Linux (after the long delayed
2.4 is
> finally released sometime in the next 6 months) is 3 or 4 years away.
And
> will be written by who knows. (I'm assuming it will be the Linux
programmers
> who can't get a full-time job).
a) You are equating the kernel and the operating system
b) You are assuming noone gets paid to work on Linux's kernel
c) You seem to expect someone to be really worried about this delay
d) A new kernel has never taken 4 years so far
--
Roberto Alsina
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
------------------------------
From: "Chad Myers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Linux 2.4 mired in delays as Compaq warns of lack of momentum
Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 13:55:57 GMT
"Paul Colquhoun" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> On Mon, 13 Nov 2000 13:52:59 GMT, Chad Myers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
> |
> |"Ketil Z Malde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> |news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> |> "Chad Myers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> |>
> |> > The claim that Linux is already "enterprise ready" is at stake.
> |>
> |> Well, Linux is being used by plenty of enterprises, so it's beyond
> |> "enterprise ready".
> |
> |It is? How so? Please provide examples.
> |
> |> > You can't have an enterprise-ready application with a faulty and
> |> > half-baked file system (ext2).
> |>
> |> I'm not sure why you think ext2 is half-baked and faulty?
> |
> |Because it is. There's no redundancy, no jounraling, no protection,
> |it's slow, it's poorly designed, it's.... Obviously there are problems
> |because there are several other FS' in the works and Linus himself is
> |working on ext3.
>
>
> What sort of demented reasoning is that?
>
> "Windows 2000: Obviously there are problems because there are several
> other OS's in the works."
There's a big difference between Whistler and Linux 2.4.
Microsoft has built a fully scalable, high performance, secure, and stable
OS with Windows 2000. However, there is still room for yet more performance,
more scalability, more stability, etc. This is Whistler. Whistler also
unifies the product line (yes, it's real this time) and adds many of the .NET
services.
IOW, Microsoft is moving on and innovating new solutions.
Linus and consequently Linux, OTOH, is playing catch up. They're attempting
to get their OS the basic services that NT 3.1 had. They're trying to fix
all the problems that have plauged Linux and prevented it from excelling in
any benchmark (except when web servers are run in the kernel).
Linux 2.4 should've been out two years ago. By that I mean, a majority of
the things they're doing in 2.4 had been done several years ago by many
leading OSes.
> The world has room for alternatives, no one product can be all things to all
> people and expect to do all of it well.
However, Linux doesn't seem to accomplish anything really well.
-Chad
------------------------------
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy
Subject: Re: A Microsoft exodus!
From: Ketil Z Malde <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 14:16:54 GMT
"Erik Funkenbusch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> Interesting. Since the MFC code is not instrumented, there is no way that
> Purify or Insure++ could tell that an array index is out of bounds "deep in
> the MFC" code.
It does, though, try it. I haven't bothered to check exactly what
goes on, since I wouldn't dare to try to fix anything, and of course
the "deepness" of it might be debatable. I imagine it is in stuff
that is supplied as source (.h files leap to mind).
> Also, the uninitialized reads are also possibly false positives.
True enough. Perhaps they all are - it seems to work well enough.
But it does mean a lot of filtering to be useful in debugging *my*
code, and having a bunch of error messages are a bit disturbing.
-kzm
--
If I haven't seen further, it is by standing in the footprints of giants
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Pascal Haakmat)
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy
Subject: Re: A Microsoft exodus!
Date: 14 Nov 2000 14:17:28 GMT
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Erik Funkenbusch wrote:
>> In any case, whether this is possible or not, an executable attachment
>will
>> always have an icon that identifies it as such. You cannot confuse the
>> system by using multiple extensions such as in Outlook, which I think is
>the
>> real issue.
>
>Outlook wasn't confused. It displayed the correct icon. It's just that the
>name was "file.txt
>.vbs", and outlook truncated the filename after so many characters.
You are right. I got things mixed up.
My opinion that extension hiding brings about confusion stands, however.
------------------------------
From: sfcybear <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.ms.windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: Most important computer program in the history of humanity
Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 14:14:32 GMT
who cares that an MS exec dubs his own product the most any thing?
History and not MS will decide what was the most important.
In article <w32Q5.195570$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
"mmnnoo" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> A Microsoft exec dubs Windows 2000
> "the most important computer program in the history of humanity"
>
(http://www.businessweek.com/bwdaily/dnflash/nov2000/nf20001113_046.htm)
>
> Although this strikes me as ridiculous and somewhat offensive, I can't
> think of any other computer programs that really deserve the title,
either.
>
>
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
------------------------------
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: We will never know what the MS intruder did
From: Ketil Z Malde <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 14:25:59 GMT
"Chad Myers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> The source for Linux is there, but it doesn't appear that people are
> content to wallow through miles and miles of poorly written code
> when all the tried and true methods (the ones they use for Windows)
> work just as well on Linux.
Which methods are that? Disassembler, packet sniffer, brute force API
hammering?
>>> People are finding bugs at a rate almost as frequent as Linux,
>>> although it's waning now in the past few months.
>> Well, one conclusion could be that there are "almost as many" bugs in
>> NT as in Linux, another could be that there are many more bugs in NT,
>> but that they are harder to find.
> I wasn't making assumptions. You're trying to say it's harder to find
> bugs in closed source, and I'm saying, "Look at the numbers". The numbers
> suggest no one is having a hard time finding bugs in NT.
And I'm saying that this could equally well be because there are many
more bugs in NT. *shrug*.
>> What?! Who's changing the goal line?
[request for clarification carefully omitted by you]
> Linux is a kernel, it isn't a kernel, it is a kernel. You change the
> definition of Linux (which is typically most of the distributions, or
> the common code that they all shared which is typically more than the kernel)
> to suits your needs in the heat of the debate.
And who is comparing what to "ALL of MS products" again? Apparently,
you can't substantiate your claims or even explain what you meant, so
you accuse me of changing goal lines instead.
Did somebody compare the Linux kernel to "ALL of MS products"? If so,
who, in what message? Or do you think it's unfair to compare a Linux
distribution to "ALL of MS products"? If so, why?
-kzm
--
If I haven't seen further, it is by standing in the footprints of giants
------------------------------
From: sfcybear <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.os2.advocacy,alt.destroy.microsoft
Subject: Re: Uptime -- where is NT?
Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 14:19:22 GMT
Yeapers, but the point is moot unless you are making the case that NT
has better uptime performance the lousy W2K performance.
In article <L16Q5.8180$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
"Erik Funkenbusch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> "Bob Lyday" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > Erik Funkenbusch wrote:
> > >
> > You still never explained why NT never made it into the Top 50,
Eric.
>
> Read the link again. It explains it quite clearly. NT4 simply
cannot, in
> any circumstance, report an uptime longer than 49.7 days, even if the
server
> has been up for 3 years straight. It can't make it into the top 50 if
it is
> incapable of reporting a time large enough to BE in the top 50, now
can it?
>
> > And you never explained the graph that shows Starbucks rebooting
their
> > NT 4 server on a daily basis for months and months on end.
>
> Again:
> http://uptime.netcraft.com/hammer/accuracy.html#whichos
>
> "NT4 SP5 sometimes gives unreliable data, appearing as a "swarm of
bees"
> effect on a graph."
>
> Notice how the starbucks NT4 results show no trend. One day it's an
18 day
> uptime, the next day it's 40 days, the next day it's 0 days, the next
day
> something else. There is no way from *ANY* NT4 uptime result to know
if
> it's accurate or not.
>
> > I thought
> > NT 4 was the end-all and be-all of server OS's, Eric? How can u
> > explain this anomalous behavior?
>
> I explain it by pointing out netcrafts own explanation. NT4's uptime
> statistics are not valid in any condition. Ever.
>
> > Oh, and Eric, how can you explain
> > the fact that 74% of all Internet servers are on *nix?
>
> I can't explain it, because it's not true. 74% of all hostnames are
run on
> unix servers, which is not the same thing as 74% of all internet
servers.
> There is no statistics on how many actual servers there are on the
internet,
> and what OS they run. Here's the hint, one server can have more than
one,
> even thousands of hostnames. And one hostname can have more than one,
even
> hundreds of servers.
>
> > And how can
> > you explain the recent study in which an NT server had to be
rebooted
> > 64 times in a year while the Linux server only had to be rebooted
> > once?
>
> And which study was that?
>
> > And how can you explain the most recent repeats of the
> > Mindcraft survey in which Linux/Apache is now kicking NT/IIS? Eric?
> > Are you there? ;)
>
> Apache is *NOT* kicking IIS. Tux is. And that's an entirely
different can
> of worms. Get your facts straight.
The fact is, IIS is not the fastes or the most popular webserver.
>
>
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
------------------------------
From: Mike Raeder <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.ms.windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: Most important computer program in the history of humanity
Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 23:43:25 -0500
mmnnoo wrote:
>
> A Microsoft exec dubs Windows 2000
> "the most important computer program in the history of humanity"
<snip>
"If it fails to win new converts, Microsoft's stock will
probably continue to head south."
</snip>
That's one of the biggest problems with Micro$oft. They've
stopped being a tech company and are now just a a finance
company.
--
My Australian Shepherd is smarter than your honor student
------------------------------
From: Mike Raeder <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.os2.advocacy,alt.destroy.microsoft
Subject: Re: Uptime -- where is NT?
Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 23:51:45 -0500
Jacques Guy wrote:
>
> Erik Funkenbusch wrote:
>
> > http://uptime.netcraft.com/hammer/accuracy.html#whichos
>
> > "Additionally, NT4 uptimes cycle back to zero after 49.7 days, and give
> > timestamps exactly as if the machine had been rebooted at this precise
> > point"
>
> Not to worry, only a clerical mistake. Should be 29.52 days, a lunar
> month,
Ahhh, so the problem with NT is something of an occult
nature.
--
My Australian Shepherd is smarter than your honor student
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 09:54:57 -0500
From: Donavon Pfeiffer Jr <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Crossposted-To: comp.os.os2.advocacy,alt.destroy.microsoft
Subject: Re: Uptime -- where is NT?
"tklso@pklif" wrote:
> In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Bob says...
> >
> >http://uptime.netcraft.com/today/top.avg.html
> >
> >Note that in this survey of the longest uptimes, every single one of
> >them is running some form of Unix. Not even one single one is running
> >any Microsoft OS, even Windows 2000.
>
> this is not fair.
>
> windows OS's are designed for ease of use and not for staying up longest.
>
> you really can't have it both ways. If you want a pretty looking OS,
> you have to put up with a crash here and there. If you want a solid
> OS like unix, you have to put up with not having all those pretty windows
> on the desktop.
>
> it is a matter of choice. that is why unix is used for servers, and windows
> for the desktop. desktop system do not have to stay up too long, unlike
> servers.
>
Funny, Solaris seems to stay up indefinitely, as do our open windows
over IRIX tools.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ()
Crossposted-To: comp.ms.windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: Most important computer program in the history of humanity
Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 14:59:03 GMT
On Tue, 14 Nov 2000 23:43:25 -0500, Mike Raeder <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>mmnnoo wrote:
>>
>> A Microsoft exec dubs Windows 2000
>> "the most important computer program in the history of humanity"
>
><snip>
>"If it fails to win new converts, Microsoft's stock will
>probably continue to head south."
></snip>
>
>That's one of the biggest problems with Micro$oft. They've
>stopped being a tech company and are now just a a finance
>company.
Microsoft has never been a tech company. For every dollar spend on developing
software, they've spent a hundred driving their competitors out of business
through underhanded business practices.
------------------------------
From: Tim <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Disapointed in the election
Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 09:07:40 -0600
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Nader will not be in any shape to run for president again in four years.
He's too old.
I like him though; and I absolutely despise idiots who complain that "we
helped elect Bush (whom I also hate). The one party system sucks
(republicratic party) and it's never going to change unless we stop voting
for "lesser evils". that is bullshit.
I do not see the US voter at present as having any more choice than
citizens of the Soviet Union of 30 years ago. there is virtually no
difference between the Republicans and Democrats. They are both pro
corporate capitalists hell bent on destroying our freedoms. They just
differ in which freedoms they want to take from us.
> I vote for the candidate I believe in, Nader. In four years Nader is
> going to be a major player, especially after Bush or Gore screws this
> entire country into the ground.
>
> claire
> >I'm fromthe UK, so I obviously could not vote in your elections. While
> >I can see why you voted for Nader, don't you see that you have only
> >acted to help the simpleton Bush?
>
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Same old Linux..Nothing new here...
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 15:13:52 GMT
On Mon, 13 Nov 2000 22:16:35 -0500, Glitch <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>if you are so smart in using windows why did u buy mandrake for $10 when
>u could have downloaded it? or do u use a 56k modem and figured u
>woudlnt spend the time doing so?
Bingo..
No cable or dsl where I live.
>If i dont like something i dont buy it even if i would appreciate what i
>do like more. I'd use the $10 on a tank of gas than buying an OS i'd
>never use in order to appreciate more the one i *do* use. That is just
>demented , and a waste of money.
Sounds like you are hung up on money, or the lack of it there of.
>when u get the Taurus u are forced to , no one forces you to buy
>Mandrake, except that little voice in your head that says 'waste your
>hard earned money on something you will never use'
See above.
Money is not a problem for me.
claire
>[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>>
>> On Mon, 13 Nov 2000 20:23:08 -0500, Glitch <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>
>> >if you don't like what people say about Mandrake ( i said mandrake mind
>> >you, not linux) then why did you buy it?
>>
>> For $10.00 or so why not?
>> Using it for even 10 minutes allows me to appreciate Windows so much
>> more.
>> It's like having to drive one of those awful Ford Taurus's that Hertz
>> always seems to rent me when I travel on business, and then getting
>> into my Impala SS once again when I return home.
>>
>> >also, we've seen you complain about linux in general so if u don't like
>> >it why do you use it? please answer. i've love to hear this one.
>>
>> Someday, maybe, possibly, Linux might actually turn into a swan
>> instead of being the ugly duckling that it currently is.
>>
>> If I'm still alive if / when that happens, I'm 40 now, I'd like to be
>> one of the first to experience it.
>>
>> claire
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Same old Linux..Nothing new here...
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 15:14:10 GMT
Spoken like a true geek.
claire
On Mon, 13 Nov 2000 23:38:48 -0500, Gary Hallock
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> If I'm still alive if / when that happens, I'm 40 now, I'd like to be
>> one of the first to experience it.
>>
>>
>
>Your 40??? You act like a 5 year old.
>
>Gary
>
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Same old Linux..Nothing new here...
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 15:18:10 GMT
On Tue, 14 Nov 2000 10:52:34 +0000, "Scaramanga"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>Can't get a mousewheel to work?
>
>Well I'd rather have that than a whole OS that is quite clearly faulty.
It's amazing what lack of ergonomics and ease of use you Linvocates
are willing to put up with to run Linux.
>Also, what do you expect to achieve by constatntly slating linux? You surely
>know that it is a work in progress.
It shows.
>If you *really* dont like something, either download the source code and help
>out with fixing it, even submitting a bug report will help. Stop bothering the
>people in this newsgroup with it. We clearly don't care.
Yawn...
I don't feel like writing my own operating system today.
Maybe tomorrow.
>We are far more concerned with advocating linux to people who need it,
>bringing free software in to vital roles, and to poor/developing countries,
>and schools. Not to idiots who are just looking for fuel for flaimbait.
You certainly seem interested.
Why don't go and help that poor chap in the setup group who can't get
his mouse working instead of "advocating" Linux. While you're at it
you can help the guy who can't get his modem to work, scanner, CDRW,
printer and so forth. Hardware that worked just fine under Windows.
claire
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: True GTK+ will eliminate Qt in next few years?
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.x,comp.os.linux.misc,comp.unix.solaris
Date: 14 Nov 2000 09:16:56 -0600
In comp.os.linux.advocacy Craig Kelley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I hope that the two projects merge in the future in a language less
> sucky than either C or C++.
Agreed. They should write it in Java. That way, KDE and GNOME could run on
an array of embedded applications (such as the Palm pilot). We'll
see a lot less of Windows CE. I'm tired of seeing Windows CE running on
embedded applications.
- Donn
====== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News ======
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
======= Over 80,000 Newsgroups = 16 Different Servers! ======
------------------------------
From: "Mike" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Same old Linux..Nothing new here...
Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 15:28:36 GMT
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Well my Mandrake 7.2 CD hasn't arrived yet, but taking a look at the
> Mandrake group is anything but encouraginging. Users are complaining
> about the same old library dependency problems, modems not working, CD
> images corrupt, fonts, Netscape and so forth. Here's a real beauty.
> Can't you Linux nuts get a wheel mouse working properly under your
> half aborted "operating system". Just look at the hell that this poor
> soul is going through to get a wheel mouse to work. Oh yea, I left all
> the headers in so you net cops don't claim I am making it all up, like
> you seem to like to do when things aren't going your way.
... [copious snippage]
> ****THIS ONE IS MY FAVORITE....WHAT ARE THE ODDS THIS GUY WILL NOT
> *****MAKE A TYPO AND RENDER HIS SYSTEM X_LESS?********
>
> Add to your ~/.Xdefaults:
>
> !## NETSCAPE
> Netscape*drawingArea.translations: #replace \
> <Btn1Down>: ArmLink() \n\
> <Btn2Down>: ArmLink() \n\
> ~Shift<Btn1Up>: ActivateLink() \n\
> ~Shift<Btn2Up>: ActivateLink(new-window) \
... [a semi-infinite set of remarkably similar lines was snipped]
The odds are pretty good, of course: with her working mouse buttons, she'll
use copy and paste.
But... ugh. All this effort just to get the mouse to work in Netscape. You'd
think it would just work. You wonder why so many people in COLA devote so
much time to defending why it doesn't.
My .Xdefaults used to look like this. All kinds of crud to define how keys
work, because they didn't work to begin with. The problem then was that
certain applications (as I recall, Netscape was one of them) also redefine
the keys, apparently to make things easier for the user. So, I redefined the
"End" key to be the same as some function key that meant "End of Line". That
worked great until I opened an application that expected to perform an "End
of Line" function when it received the original key code from the "End" key.
X replaced the original key code with the function key code, and the
application had no idea how to deal with it. And so it went.
I finally gave up. Key support has slowly gotten better, and few things are
less worthwhile than mucking with a .Xdefaults file just to try to get the
keyboard (or mouse) working correctly.
-- Mike --
------------------------------
** FOR YOUR REFERENCE **
The service address, to which questions about the list itself and requests
to be added to or deleted from it should be directed, is:
Internet: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
You can send mail to the entire list (and comp.os.linux.advocacy) via:
Internet: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Linux may be obtained via one of these FTP sites:
ftp.funet.fi pub/Linux
tsx-11.mit.edu pub/linux
sunsite.unc.edu pub/Linux
End of Linux-Advocacy Digest
******************************
