Linux-Advocacy Digest #243, Volume #30 Tue, 14 Nov 00 23:13:04 EST
Contents:
Re: Uptime -- where is NT? (Phil 'Guido' Cava)
Re: Debian Sells Stale Beef (Terry Porter)
Re: A Microsoft exodus! (Alan Boyd)
Re: OS stability (Donovan Rebbechi)
Re: A Microsoft exodus! (Donovan Rebbechi)
Re: True GTK+ will eliminate Qt in next few years? (Donovan Rebbechi)
Re: Linux vs Microsoft Misconceptions: (Terry Porter)
Re: A Microsoft exodus! ("Bruce Schuck")
Re: Same old Linux..Nothing new here... (Terry Porter)
Re: Of course, there is a down side... ("Les Mikesell")
Re: Debian Sells Stale Beef ("mmnnoo")
Re: NT/2000 true multiuser? ("Les Mikesell")
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Phil 'Guido' Cava <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.os2.advocacy,alt.destroy.microsoft
Subject: Re: Uptime -- where is NT?
Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2000 03:24:46 GMT
Mr. Funkytush,
Once again you reveal your utter lack of knowledge of computing with you
comments wrt OS/390. Stated quite simply: Nothing is more reliable than OS/390.
Nothing. Sexy it ain't; but, reliable it most assuredly is! OS/390 is _so_
reliable that IBM has applied for the ANSI 'uncrashable' rating and is willing
to open an APAR on _anything_ (short of environmentals) which can bring OS/390
down.
(BTW, OS/390 Open Edition has already passed the Unix branding tests (not
POSIX, UNIX!). If IBM wanted to, they could call it Unix... )
If all the NT machines in the world failed to boot tomorrow, the world would
have to go back to line printer fonts.
If all the OS/390 machines in thew world failed to IPL tomorrow, we would all
starve to death in the dark!
The fact that any unsigned value in a computer wraps back to zero eventually is
just a matter of how many bits wide the value is, not some indication of
whether or not it should be trusted. The width chosen however (as in the case
of NT) may well give one an idea of how long its creators thought would be a
_long_ time for that system to be up.
During the days when I worked for one of the major mainframe manufacturers, it
was not uncommon at all to find customers with OS/390 systems (MVS in those
days) which had not suffered an unschedule outage in _years_ !
49.7 days indeed...
Guido
Erik Funkenbusch wrote:
> "Jack Troughton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > The main point I was making was that Erik couldn't see how his <koff
> > koff ahem> 'rebuttal' destroyed the very point he was trying to
> > make. I mean, his response was so close to nonsensical as to be
> > comical. As far as real world metrics go, netcraft is about as good
> > as it gets right now; it measures performance of systems in the
> > field. Unfortunately, due to the dearth of remote-admin facilities
> > on NT systems, their performance/reliability cannot be measured in
> > any meaningful way in the field. This fact alone makes me leery of
> > NT as a server.
>
> Then you should be leery of Linux, recent releases of FreeBSD, HP-UX, and
> Solaris as well. Not to mention the OS's that don't report uptimes at all,
> such as OS/2, OS/390, SunOS4, NetWare...
>
> Linux, recent FreeBSD's, HP-UX and Solaris also cycle back to zero as well,
> just at a higher rate (497 days). In fact, the #2 and #3 positions on the
> current longest running sites will drop off the list in in a few days.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Terry Porter)
Subject: Re: Debian Sells Stale Beef
Reply-To: No-Spam
Date: 15 Nov 2000 03:27:53 GMT
On Tue, 14 Nov 2000 15:08:14 -0800, Ioi Lam <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>Now I've opened the shrink-wrapped box. It doesn't even come with a
>floppy boot disk. Talk about convenience.
>
>Ioi Lam wrote:
>>
>> I wanted to do some PocketLinux development (www.pocketlinux.com) and
>> they recommended Debian. So I drive down to my local store to get myself
>> a copy. There is no production date on the box, no version number, no
>> Linux version, no expiration date. Do they expect their users to be
>> homeless crack addicts that will put anything down their throat?
I can understand your frustration, and I know it seems unusual in a MS
dominated marketplace, where VERsion numbers are everything.
Linux is so different that it will take you a while to find this out,
I know it took me 2 years of intense use of Linux for some things
to sink into my Windows oriented mind.
Look at MS Word they jumped from ver 2 to vers 6 or something like that, cause
of marketing reasons, to stay abreast in the version number stakes.
Or was that Wordperfect ?
>>
>> So much about the most open Linux distribution on the planet. They are
>> not even open about when they make the CD.
Interestingly its not *that* important, and thats why.
Tell us, what was the product you bought, whats its name, and how much did it
cost ?
>>
>> Well, I bought it anyway because I feared the PocketLinux stuff will go
>> up in flames on other Linux distributions. I bought a RedHat box as well
>> just in case (and RedHat tells me what its version is!)
Yeah but again its *not* that important.
>>
>> Well, Debian, if you think you're promoting Linux, wake up! That's not
>> gonna work if all your paying customers are either zealots or suckers.
Actually I'm in the process of upgrading this PC to Debian "slink" from
Redhat4.2, circa 1997 at this moment :)
I'm just about to shut down this box to do just that.
Now this box (gronk) has a distro thats THREE years old, yet I install the
latest apps every day, HOW is this possible ?
Its possible because I compile the source, and 99% of all Free Software
source code, compiles and runs on this old disto with a 2.0.36 VERsion
kernel :)
In order to upgrade, I'm totally re doing the hard drive partitions, and
starting from scratch. The 3 CD set I'm using cost $16 from Linux Systems Labs,
whereas my original CD cost me $6.50 in 1997, how the cost of software has
gone thru the roof ;-)
In order to make the upgrade painless, I set up a router/firewall/ipmasquer on
a old 486SX25 with 8 megs ram and used the *excellent* Linux package on a
floppy from http://www.freesco.org/. Its got a HTTP server for remote admin,
and is of course free :)
Then I set up a old 486Dx50 with 8 meg ram and a 120 meg HDD, its got irc,
news, browser, file manager etc, all the net tools I need while I do the
upgrade.
Why am I mentioning all this ?
Because the 486DX50 has got Debian on it, and the whole proceedure was as
smooth as silk (Cudos to the Debian people, you folks rule!).
1. Download a Debian disto, in this case "Potato" (15 off 1.44 floppy images)
for the "base" system.
2. Plug in floppies as directed, and answer questions, soon I have a bootable
Linux box, with all the files it needs to run and be usefull, mount NF, telnet
telnet, edit etc. Cost of software is zero, install is easy as anything.
3. Box reboots itself and comes up in "dpkg" finds a Debian server on the net
and asks me if it can d/l the files it needs to make the pc a full Linux box.
Now I didnt use this facility, cause 8 megs of ram and a 120 meg hdd, just
arent enought resources, and while its *possible*, the time involved while it
swaps out constantly is beyond painfull.
So I use "dpkg -i package.deb" to load on a few things like Slrn, Lynx, Less
BitchX etc and the box is done in no time, I read a book while its happening,
and if a library file is needed etc, dpkg tells me and I can get that if I wish
at that point.
All this from Debian, cost of software ? zero!
Ease of install ? hey it couldnt be easier.
Ease of use .... hahahahah type "bitchx linux.oz.org" and I'm chatting away.
This are the reasons why I like Debian.
--
Kind Regards
Terry
--
**** ****
My Desktop is powered by GNU/Linux, and has been
up 5 days 21 hours 30 minutes
** Registration Number: 103931, http://counter.li.org **
------------------------------
From: Alan Boyd <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy
Subject: Re: A Microsoft exodus!
Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 21:37:15 -0600
Bruce Schuck wrote:
>
> There were two buffer overflow security bulletins in 2000 for all products
> in Windows.
Try eleven, reported on SecurityFocus in 2000:
Windows NT 4.0 Terminal Server RegAPI.DLL Buffer Overflow
Microsoft IIS 4.0 ISAPI Buffer Overflow Vulnerability
Microsoft Network Monitor Multiple Buffer Overflow Vulnerabilities
Microsoft Outlook / Outlook Express GMT Field Buffer Overflow
Vulnerability
Microsoft Windows 9x File Handle Buffer Overflow Vulnerability
Windows NT 4.0 / 2000 cmd.exe Buffer Overflow Vulnerability
MS Frontpage Image Mapper Buffer Overflow Vulnerability
MS IIS FrontPage 98 Extensions Buffer Overflow Vulnerability
Microsoft IIS 4.0 Chunked Transfer Encoding Buffer Overflow
Vulnerability
Microsoft Clip Art Buffer Overflow Vulnerability
Microsoft CIS IMAP Buffer Overflow Vulnerability
--
"I don't believe in anti-anything. A man has to have a
program; you have to be *for* something, otherwise you
will never get anywhere." -- Harry S Truman
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Donovan Rebbechi)
Subject: Re: OS stability
Date: 15 Nov 2000 03:42:44 GMT
On Wed, 15 Nov 2000 00:28:12 GMT, sfcybear wrote:
>Yeah, people who do not like to look at the truth. Hey if you get thank
>yous from the likes of chad. drestin, and fun... And and get some sort
>of satisfaction from it, you must have a sorry life!
Nonsense. Your attempt to portray me as a closet Windows advocate is
laughable since it is easy to verify that your claims lack any substance
whatsoever.
I don't like to do this, but since you wanted to know, here's what I get
thank you letters about:
http://www.linuxdoc.org/HOWTO/Font-HOWTO.html
http://www.vim.org/syntax/spec.vim
http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/linux/modeline/
http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/unix/intro.html
http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/unix/talk/
http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/unix/quickguide.html
http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/unix/grep.html
http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/unix/sed.html
http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/unix/procmail.html
http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/unix/bash-tute.html
Nope, nothing about Windows, nothing that Chad Myers or any of the
Windows guys would really be interested in.
>But the fact remains. Now 2 sources show PRODUCTION W2K servers to be
>less stable than Unix!
Great. Now do you think that your obnoxious conduct is going to make anyone
switch ? No, it's just going to piss people off.
> Yeah, say I'm behaving badly for lininking to
>data you do not like! That is YOUR problem!
I couldn't care less about the data. I'd be using Linux, data or no data.
I'm not a big fan of benchmark pissing contests. If you want to search the
dejanews archives, I also spoke out against the proponents of the Mindcraft
benchmarks.
--
Donovan
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Donovan Rebbechi)
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy
Subject: Re: A Microsoft exodus!
Date: 15 Nov 2000 03:44:19 GMT
On Tue, 14 Nov 2000 16:22:14 -0800, Bruce Schuck wrote:
>Help.
>
>Go to the command line and type help.
I get "bad command or filename" when I type help.
>Which is more intuitive? Man? or Help?
man is more intuitive because it works.
--
Donovan
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Donovan Rebbechi)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.x,comp.os.linux.misc,comp.unix.solaris
Subject: Re: True GTK+ will eliminate Qt in next few years?
Date: 15 Nov 2000 03:45:47 GMT
On Tue, 14 Nov 2000 23:51:12 +0100, Matthias Warkus wrote:
>It was the 14 Nov 2000 19:53:48 GMT...
>...and Donovan Rebbechi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> For example, ORBit still only supports C, so all
>> languages besides C are left out of the CORBA framework.
>
>There are extensions for ORBit to support at least Python and C++ if I
>recall correctly.
ORBit-C++ requires the bleeding-edge version of glib that "should not be
used to develop stable software". Support for C++ is still in its infancy.
--
Donovan
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Terry Porter)
Subject: Re: Linux vs Microsoft Misconceptions:
Reply-To: No-Spam
Date: 15 Nov 2000 03:48:44 GMT
On Tue, 14 Nov 2000 22:58:13 -0500, Marc Richter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>On Thu, 09 Nov 2000 20:47:39 GMT, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
<snip>
>>>I am an american, so i want ease of use. I have children that are growing
>>>up and my son always asks me, when I am ttrying to get the computer running,
>>>"Dada, did you broked it again? The computer? I wanna play with yooooo..."
Hahahahahah "Claire/Steve/Keys88/Heather/Amy" youre really humurous today,
Wintroll.
"Dada your Windows box is locked up again, or is it another virus ?"
"dada my friends all have Linux, why cant you install it like my friends at
high school do, they say its the coolest"
"Ah well Dada, lets play another game of Solitare, if you cant get the Linux
box working so I can play Koules, like you know I want too, shame Dada that
Jan Hubrika the author of Koules said it'll be a rainy day in hell before he
ports it to Windows, so us kids miss out again :("
>>
>>You can teach him all about computer history starting with Asteroids.
>>See Linux, DOES have some use.
>>
<snip>
>It seems that you take great joy in crowing over your failures and
>the failures of others to operate Linux machines. Strange. Not exactly
>the attitude of the technological pioneers who got us this far.
This person is a profesional Wintroll, his name is forged, and hes a guy, not
a woman.
>
>--
>Marc A. Richter I&R Deployed Support
>
>
>
>
>
> The contents of this message express only the sender's opinion.
> This message does not necessarily reflect the policy or views of
> my employer, Merck & Co., Inc. All responsibility for the statements
> made in this Usenet posting resides solely and completely with the
> sender.
--
Kind Regards
Terry
--
**** ****
My Desktop is powered by GNU/Linux, and has been
up 5 days 22 hours 30 minutes
** Registration Number: 103931, http://counter.li.org **
------------------------------
From: "Bruce Schuck" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy
Subject: Re: A Microsoft exodus!
Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 20:01:21 -0800
"Donovan Rebbechi" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> On Tue, 14 Nov 2000 16:22:14 -0800, Bruce Schuck wrote:
>
> >Help.
> >
> >Go to the command line and type help.
>
> I get "bad command or filename" when I type help.
Try it in Win2k. Not Linux. I think Irix supports help though.
In Win2K I type help and get:
For more information on a specific command, type HELP command-name.
ASSOC Displays or modifies file extension associations
AT Schedules commands and programs to run on a computer.
ATTRIB Displays or changes file attributes.
BREAK Sets or clears extended CTRL+C checking.
CACLS Displays or modifies access control lists (ACLs) of files.
CALL Calls one batch program from another.
CD Displays the name of or changes the current directory.
CHCP Displays or sets the active code page number.
CHDIR Displays the name of or changes the current directory.
CHKDSK Checks a disk and displays a status report.
CHKNTFS Displays or modifies the checking of disk at boot time.
CLS Clears the screen.
CMD Starts a new instance of the Windows 2000 command interpreter.
COLOR Sets the default console foreground and background colors.
COMP Compares the contents of two files or sets of files.
COMPACT Displays or alters the compression of files on NTFS partitions.
CONVERT Converts FAT volumes to NTFS. You cannot convert the
current drive.
COPY Copies one or more files to another location.
DATE Displays or sets the date.
DEL Deletes one or more files.
DIR Displays a list of files and subdirectories in a directory.
DISKCOMP Compares the contents of two floppy disks.
DISKCOPY Copies the contents of one floppy disk to another.
DOSKEY Edits command lines, recalls Windows 2000 commands, and creates
macros
ECHO Displays messages, or turns command echoing on or off.
ENDLOCAL Ends localization of environment changes in a batch file.
ERASE Deletes one or more files.
EXIT Quits the CMD.EXE program (command interpreter).
FC Compares two files or sets of files, and displays the differences
between them.
FIND Searches for a text string in a file or files.
FINDSTR Searches for strings in files.
FOR Runs a specified command for each file in a set of files.
FORMAT Formats a disk for use with Windows 2000.
FTYPE Displays or modifies file types used in file extension
associations.
GOTO Directs the Windows 2000 command interpreter to a labeled line in a
batch program.
GRAFTABL Enables Windows 2000 to display an extended character set in
graphics
mode.
HELP Provides Help information for Windows 2000 commands.
IF Performs conditional processing in batch programs.
LABEL Creates, changes, or deletes the volume label of a disk.
MD Creates a directory.
MKDIR Creates a directory.
MODE Configures a system device.
MORE Displays output one screen at a time.
MOVE Moves one or more files from one directory to another directory.
PATH Displays or sets a search path for executable files.
PAUSE Suspends processing of a batch file and displays a message.
POPD Restores the previous value of the current directory saved by
PUSHD.
PRINT Prints a text file.
PROMPT Changes the Windows 2000 command prompt.
PUSHD Saves the current directory then changes it.
RD Removes a directory.
RECOVER Recovers readable information from a bad or defective disk.
REM Records comments (remarks) in batch files or CONFIG.SYS.
REN Renames a file or files.
RENAME Renames a file or files.
REPLACE Replaces files.
RMDIR Removes a directory.
SET Displays, sets, or removes Windows 2000 environment variables.
SETLOCAL Begins localization of environment changes in a batch file.
SHIFT Shifts the position of replaceable parameters in batch files.
SORT Sorts input.
START Starts a separate window to run a specified program or command.
SUBST Associates a path with a drive letter.
TIME Displays or sets the system time.
TITLE Sets the window title for a CMD.EXE session.
TREE Graphically displays the directory structure of a drive or path.
TYPE Displays the contents of a text file.
VER Displays the Windows 2000 version.
VERIFY Tells Windows 2000 whether to verify that your files are written
correctly to a disk.
VOL Displays a disk volume label and serial number.
XCOPY Copies files and directory trees.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Terry Porter)
Subject: Re: Same old Linux..Nothing new here...
Reply-To: No-Spam
Date: 15 Nov 2000 03:56:42 GMT
On Mon, 13 Nov 2000 23:38:48 -0500, Gary Hallock <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> If I'm still alive if / when that happens, I'm 40 now, I'd like to be
>> one of the first to experience it.
Then look alive youngster, I turned 46 last month!
>>
>>
>
>Your 40??? You act like a 5 year old.
Its an act, "Claire/Heather/Keys88/Amy/Steve/S" is a Wintroll, all his words
are calculated, and nothing is said that doent tie in with his future plans.
Dont be deceived, this Wintroll, is not a *real* persona.
>
>Gary
>
>
--
Kind Regards
Terry
--
**** ****
My Desktop is powered by GNU/Linux, and has been
up 5 days 22 hours 30 minutes
** Registration Number: 103931, http://counter.li.org **
------------------------------
From: "Les Mikesell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Of course, there is a down side...
Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2000 04:03:28 GMT
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> First you have to figure out how to make wine work.
>
> claire
If you can put the CD in the right place when you install
Mandrake it will come up working.
Les Mikesell
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
------------------------------
From: "mmnnoo" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Debian Sells Stale Beef
Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2000 04:04:58 GMT
(What an off-the-wall criticism...)
Maybe they don't stamp the version number on the
box, but do you know how easy it is to automatically
update a Debian system to the latest version of
everything? (check out apt-get).
------------------------------
From: "Les Mikesell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: NT/2000 true multiuser?
Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2000 04:06:38 GMT
"Erik Funkenbusch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:bgJP5.7856$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> "Les Mikesell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:r2JP5.19743$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > "Erik Funkenbusch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > news:n8HP5.7842$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > > Huh? The kind of client is irrelevant. The Win2k TS client works on
> NT4,
> > > 9x, 2k, and CE devices. You can use the Citrix client for non-Windows
> > > clients. Yes, that's an extra expense, but then that wasn't what you
> > > originally said.
> >
> > Does the citrix client work against the stock Win2k-server TS server?
>
> Yes, it does.
>
> Microsofts WTS uses a protocol called RDP, while Citrix Metaframe uses
ICA.
> Citrix clients understand both RDP and ICA.
>
Is there some trick to it? I had a win2k server configured for
administration
via TS and couldn't get a Citrix client on Linux to connect.
Les Mikesell
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
------------------------------
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