Linux-Advocacy Digest #337, Volume #30 Tue, 21 Nov 00 02:13:03 EST
Contents:
Re: OT: Could someone explain C++ phobia in Linux? ("Tom Wilson")
Re: OT: Could someone explain C++ phobia in Linux? ("Tom Wilson")
Re: Of course, there is a down side... ("JS/PL")
Re: Of course, there is a down side... ("Tom Wilson")
Re: 10th grader com sci homework request ("Les Mikesell")
Re: Of course, there is a down side... ("Les Mikesell")
Re: Of course, there is a down side... ("Les Mikesell")
Re: Linux trips over itself once again ("Les Mikesell")
Re: Of course, there is a down side... ("Les Mikesell")
Re: Linux trips over itself once again (Topaz Crow)
Re: Of course, there is a down side... (Mike Byrns)
Re: Which distribution do I get? (David Dorward)
Re: MS Office goes SUBSCRIPTION! (David Steinberg)
Re: Of course, there is a down side... (Mike Byrns)
Re: Linux Sux (Jacques Guy)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "Tom Wilson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: OT: Could someone explain C++ phobia in Linux?
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 05:44:08 GMT
"Russ Lyttle" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Tom Wilson wrote:
> >
> > "Russ Lyttle" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > > mlw wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Russ Lyttle wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > mlw wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I have given several code snippets which show issues you raise
as
> > > > > > incorrect. I am still curious as to why you have the opinions
that
> > you
> > > > > > do. Can you post a code snippet that supports at least one of
your
> > > > > > claims so that I can try to understand your points?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --
> > > > > > http://www.mohawksoft.com
> > > > > Well, I want to write a program to operate a combined
> > > > > standard/high-definition TV. It will run on an 8502 with 8k RAM
and
> > 64k
> > > > > ROM. It will handle all the TV setup, maintenance, and operation.
> > > > > Convergance (making white lines one white line instead of a red
line
> > and
> > > > > a blue line and a green line) is a particular problem. The
development
> > > > > system doesn't have a C++ compiler. What do I do? Did I mention
that
> > > > > this also runs the menu and remote control system?
> > > >
> > > > You have stated that C++ is much slower than C. I have given
snippets
> > > > which refute your points. I am only asking you if you can show me
some
> > > > code snippets that display the behavior of which you complain. You
come
> > > > back with a response about embedded applications. The point of this
> > > > thread was a C++ phobia. Although not explicitly stated, but could
be
> > > > inferred by the thread, context, and title that it is about general
> > > > computing and application development.
> > > >
> > > > I have done a few embedded applications and have had some success
with
> > > > the Z80 based hitachi controller. As you know embedded apps are very
> > > > funky. I would not even go as high as C, I'd stay in assembler. 8K
is
> > > > not a lot of ram.
> > > >
> > > > All I am asking is if you can show me some code that displays the
> > > > behavior that "C++ is almost as slow as Java" as you claim.
> > > >
> > > > The point about this thread is that a lot linux people seem to have
> > > > opinions of C++ which are not based on fact. They are of the opinion
> > > > that C++ is bad, facts be damned, and they'll make up whatever
"facts"
> > > > they need. I just want to understand why, and as yet, have no idea
why
> > > > people claim the things that they do.
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > http://www.mohawksoft.com
> > > file://hello.cpp
> > >
> > > #include <iostream.h>
> > > #include <string>
> > > using namespace std;
> > > inline void pr_message(string s = "Hello World!")
> > > {cout << s << endl;}
> > >
> > > int main()
> > > {
> > > pr_message();
> > > }
> > >
> > >
> > > /*hello.c*/
> > > #include <stdio.h>
> > >
> > > int main(void){
> > > printf("Hello, World\n");
> > > return (0);
> > > }
> > >
> > > Hello.cpp :71670 bytes assembly, 27,606 bytes execuitable
> > > Hello.c : 412 bytes assembly 11,411 bytes execuitable
> > >
> > > same optimization, same debug, same warnings.
> >
> > The extra overhead has to do with the VTable.
> > The disparity decreases as the program's size and complexity increases.
> >
> > A lot of it has to do with the compiler too. GPP, the little I've played
> > with it, seems to bloat things more than VC++. Not to any great degree,
> > though.
> >
> > --
> > Tom Wilson
> > Registered Linux User #194021
> > Also...
> > NT 4.0 User
> > Win 95/98 User
> >
> > They're operating systems...Not religions
> > GET A LIFE!
> >
> > > --
> > > Russ Lyttle, PE
> > > <http://www.flash.net/~lyttlec>
> > > Not Powered by ActiveX
> VC++ tricks can/does make WINDOWS ONLY code somewhat faster than gcc,
> thats true. But, last time I tried, Borland Turbo C beat VC++. Anyone
> tried that recently?
As a former Borland fanatic, no.
IMHO, they fell off the mark several years ago. I'm curious to hear how
their newer products are faring though...
--
Tom Wilson
Registered Linux User #194021
Also...
NT 4.0 User
Win 95/98 User
They're operating systems...Not religions
GET A LIFE!
> --
> Russ Lyttle, PE
> <http://www.flash.net/~lyttlec>
> Not Powered by ActiveX
------------------------------
From: "Tom Wilson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: OT: Could someone explain C++ phobia in Linux?
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 05:44:09 GMT
"Russ Lyttle" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Tom Wilson wrote:
> >
> > "Russ Lyttle" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > > Tom Wilson wrote:
> > > >
> > > > "Russ Lyttle" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > > > news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > > > > Tom Wilson wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Russ Lyttle wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > I'm not knocking VC++ here, just stating a fact. We are useing
> > VC++
> > > > and
> > > > > > > the *.exe run slower than similar programs written in C.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Out of curiosity, are you utilizing MFC heavily or have you
decided
> > to
> > > > wrap Win32
> > > > > > functions yourselves. I've seen some massive performace
increases
> > by
> > > > doing my
> > > > > > own wrapping. (Not to mention eliminating a LOT of memory leaks)
> > > > > >
> > > > > A little of both. The live project has lots of legacy code that is
> > > > > difficult to do touch, but seems well written. We have a speed
problem
> > > > > that we have been attacking by your method. Memory leaks haven't
been
> > > > > much of a problem. We added 64Meg ram to each system and they stay
up
> > > > > for the required time. We just try not to add more leaks.
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > Windows programming bears a strong resemblence to plumbing at times,
> > doesn't
> > > > it? <g>
> > > >
> > > > The Windows project i'm involved with is on hold at the present
time. I
> > > > relied heavily on MFC and am regretting it. (Leak city) Ran into
> > problems
> > > > where ANISOTROPIC mapping produced different results on NT, 95, and
98.
> > (Had
> > > > to do my own dynamic image and font resizing for consistant results)
> > > > YaddaYadda Yadda....
> > > >
> > > > The Linux project i've just started is proving far more pleasant.
I'd
> > almost
> > > > forgotten how nice working without a dedicated IDE could be. Forces
one
> > to
> > > > think! I got far to complacent with VC++.
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Tom Wilson
> > > > Registered Linux User #194021
> > > > Also...
> > > > NT 4.0 User
> > > > Win 95/98 User
> > > >
> > > > They're operating systems...Not religions
> > > > GET A LIFE!
> > > >
> > > > > > <<Snipping my initital drivel>>
> > > >>More Snipping for space<<
> > > The biggest problem I have with VC++ at the moment is version control.
> > > If I want to change some small thing, I have to check out everything.
If
> > > someone else wants to make a small change somewhere else, they have to
> > > also check out everything. This translates into a branch/merge problem
> > > at check in time. Given limited SCM support, this is a real pain.
> >
> > I've never tried source tree sharing under VC. After reading that, I
don't
> > think I want to. You'd figure that MS package, Code Safe? (Can't
remember
> > the name), would provide CVS's functionality. I only looked at it
briefly
> > as I decided to play hookey from computers at that point, quit my job,
and
> > visit a friend in Tennessee. Sad, hating the one thing you're good at.
Hated
> > it enough that I gave up a job that included a free T1 line in my
apartment!
> >
> > --
> > Tom Wilson
> > Hobo Wannabe.
> >
> > > --
> > > Russ Lyttle, PE
> > > <http://www.flash.net/~lyttlec>
> > > Not Powered by ActiveX
> Source Safe, I think you mean. CVS crippled by MS putting a gui over it
> and changing it for marketing. You can use it only if your customer buys
> your version control plan. The local ISO auditor won't buy that plan.
That falls in line with every other verdict I've heard....
> --
> Russ Lyttle, PE
> <http://www.flash.net/~lyttlec>
> Not Powered by ActiveX
------------------------------
From: "JS/PL" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Of course, there is a down side...
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 00:54:21 -0500
"Mike Byrns" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> JS/PL wrote:
>
> > "Charlie Ebert" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > > In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
> > > The Ghost In The Machine wrote:
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> (e) Microsoft has less than no credibility in the server world,
> > > >>>> while UNIX and Linux have proven themselves admirably.
> > > >>>
> > > >>>I wouldn't say that; IIS is in fact used in a number of places.
> > > >>>However, it's far from clear that IIS is as powerful as
> > > >>>Apache, although it may depend on the application.
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > >
> > >
> > > A few words about IIS.
> > >
> > > {http://../../../../command.com}
> > >
> > > Hope this helps!
> >
> > What's that supposed to do, besides throw a 404 error? It doesn't even
touch
> > the local server.
> > Even typing http://localhost/../../../../command.com doesn't do anything
> > especially since the path to command.com isn't even remotely shown in
the
> > url above.
>
> It's just another example of how little the nix folks know about Windows.
But you would think that they would at least know some basic URL
conventions, and not post a url that is supposed to somehow cause the local
server to do something, yet leave the local server out of the URL.
------------------------------
From: "Tom Wilson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Of course, there is a down side...
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 05:51:48 GMT
"Gary Hallock" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > How's this better? More usable to the average computer user? I think
not.
> > What's wrong with a well written setup program that autoruns when you
insert
> > the CD? You know the ones that ask to install the program if its not
installed
> > or run it or uninstall it if it is. The same ones that often offer to
display
> > a release notes file that usually contains a list of the files
installed, etc.
> >
> > Face it, most folks do NOT want to have to enter cryptic codes to do
basic
> > things like install software.
>
> What's wrong with kpackage? Insert CD. The CD is automatically mounted
and
> kpackage is started with a description of the rpm file. One click and
you have a
> list of files in the package.
>
> The fact is, if you want a point and click GUI interface, you have it.
If you
> prefer a CLI interface, you have that too. Why do Windows people get so
bent of
> of shape just because CLI is offered as an option on Linux?
>
Because, IMHO, they had such difficulty navigating MS-DOS.
--
Tom Wilson
Linux User
Windows NT User
Windows 95/98 User
For our CARNIVOROUS FBI friends:
Kill Gore, Kill Bush, Free McVeigh, Turner Diaries, Oswald, Long Live
Saddam, Bomb, Ammonium Nitrate, Revolution, Guns, Nuke Florida, Anthrax,
Samples, The Alien at Roswell, Kennedy, Ransom, Demands, The Drop, and
Hoffa got loose again! And, per request: Free Kevin!
PS: You've been screening this shit since the eighties. Have you caught
anybody yet?
> Gary
>
------------------------------
From: "Les Mikesell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.unix.advocacy
Subject: Re: 10th grader com sci homework request
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 06:21:07 GMT
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>
> > > Both harder to learn and less stable than MacOS
> >
> > Are you saying Linux is less stable than MacOS. I'd have to disagree,
> > unless you're talking about MacOS X (which I don't know much about).
>
> Are you illiterate or something? Read it! The comparison is Windows v
> MacOS. I didn't mention Linux here.
Then the reason for posting to comp.os.linux.advocacy would be???
Les Mikesell
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
------------------------------
From: "Les Mikesell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Of course, there is a down side...
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 06:21:07 GMT
"Curtis" <alliem@kas*spam*net.com> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Les Mikesell wrote...
> > Indeed, quite a lot of functionality has been withheld from those
computer
> > users and they don't even know what they are missing. I'll bet if they
> > have a huge list of names in
> > Last, First
> > format and wanted
> > First Last
> > they would retype the whole thing since they don't have:
> > :%s/\(.*\), \(.*\)/\2 \1/
> > or any reasonable equivalent. Their loss. And it would be
> > mine if that is all I had.
>
> Actually, what I do in Win2k here is fire up my TextPad, open the search
> and replace tool, enable regex's and for the search expression:
> ^\([[:word:]]+\), \([[:word:]]+\) or
> I could use your expression to be less precise
> \(.*\), (.*\)
> and the replacement expression
> \2, \1
> I hit 'replace all' and I'm done. If I feel I have to do this on more
> occasions, I just create a macro to do it with one programmable shortcut.
Whoa - you almost had me thinking that Microsoft had learned something,
but a search on a win2k server finds only notepad and WordPad - no
textpad.
Les Mikesell
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
------------------------------
From: "Les Mikesell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Of course, there is a down side...
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 06:21:07 GMT
"Mike Byrns" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> >
> > Maybe the philosophy of Linux is that the OS isn't so bloated and
unwieldy
> > that you need to rush out and buy a better CPU, video card, sound card
and
> > hard disk just to squeeze out something that resembles acceptable
> > performance from your machine. Maybe the thought of being able to add
the
> > components you want -- instead of being saddled with everything some
other
> > clown thinks should be part of the OS -- is the attraction. Maybe it's
the
> > fact that you can actually do something that resembles security, instead
> > of leaking your information to every skriptkiddie who knows how to query
> > TCP port 139 or UDP port 137.
> >
> > Or maybe not.
>
> I'll go with "maybe not" for $1000, Alex...
Yes, note that windows 2000 can arbitrarily decide to use some other port
for file sharing, bypassing any idea of security you thought you had gained
by blocking 137 and 139. Fun stuff...
Les Mikesell
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
------------------------------
From: "Les Mikesell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Linux trips over itself once again
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 06:21:08 GMT
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> On Mon, 20 Nov 2000 04:11:15 GMT, "Les Mikesell"
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>
> >It was using bios up to that point, now it needs its own driver and
> >your CD must not be standard IDE or SCSI.
>
> How come SuSE 6.4 installs perfectly, except for the Token Ring?
>
It obviously includes the non-standard driver you happen to
need. It probably mentions its name in the start-up, which
you can see again later with 'dmesg' if you miss it.
> >> What " How-To " did I miss this time?
> >
> >I think if you hit F1 at the startup prompt as it clearly suggests, the
> >mysteries will be revealed to you.
>
>
> F3 gives the same messages as before.
One of the startup modes mentioned should tell you how to add
a driver module as you boot. Or, if you are already running, you
can copy the CD files over to a partition on the hard disk, boot
with a floppy and install from there.
Les Mikesell
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
------------------------------
From: "Les Mikesell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Of course, there is a down side...
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 06:21:07 GMT
"Curtis" <alliem@kas*spam*net.com> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > I usually have a need for that sort of text transformation several times
> > a day.
>
> That's extraordinary in an average user setting.
Do you mean most jobs don't involve repeating patterns, or that
they don't recognize them?
> > The same group that reformats their disks and reloads windows for them
> > when the OS screws up could teach them while they wait for the
> > operation to complete. Or they could read it in a 20 year old book.
> > Or, if they had grep they could learn it in a natural process extending
> > from plain strings.
>
> You have a gross double standard. You wish them to learn so much, but on
> your terms. We wish them to learn a few things, you scream "bloody hell,
> but why make them learn so much?"
No, I am reacting to the reverse claim that windows users don't need
to know anything which is not true at all. They do have to learn
lot, yet they end up only knowing about special cases that will
likely be different in next year's version. They are not encouraged
to see the potential for using the computer to work for them as
they notice the repeating patterns in their jobs. That is, there is no
straightforward way to go from the interactive use of typical
windows tools to automation of the same action. The program
may have its own special-case internal language for automation
but it has nothing in common with normal use.
> A simple string search and replace tool in addition to standard word
> processor tools cater to the bulk of their needs where manipulating as
> well as searching for and replacing text are concerned.
Note that a regexp handler works just fine with simple strings, and
you don't have to start over when the pattern is slightly more
complicated.
Les Mikesell
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Topaz Crow)
Subject: Re: Linux trips over itself once again
Date: 21 Nov 2000 06:29:29 GMT
Reply-To: alt.anonymous.messages;ATTN: Topaz Crow
On Mon, 20 Nov 2000 20:14:46 +0000, mark <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>>[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>>>
>>> Once again Linux, in this case Mandrake 7.2, has failed to install on
>>> a system that has easily installed Windows.
>>>
>>
>>For goodness sake, only somebody particularly ignorant would ever claim
>>Linux is meant to be easy. It is getting better, but still has a long
>>way to go.
>
>I'm not really sure that's true. My kids, one 6 and one 4, are quite
>capable of playing games from the virtual console using the debian
>pdmenu package. The 6 year old can start pdmenu by typing pdmenu,
>he can shut the machine down properly (ie., execute a halt or a reboot
>and wait until the post has started before switching off).
>He can switch between X-windows system on vt7 and vt1 and back again,
>he can use windowmaker's menu and afterstep's menu to start games,
>as can the 4 year old.
>
>The 6 year old can 'make the computer talk' by typing say and then
>the sentence of his choice, he can use the 'up arrow' and return to
>say the message again.
>
>He can play doom on it as well.
>
>He can start Netscape and check his emails, and is fully aware that
>the emails, net surfing, printer and lots of other things run on the
>'server upstairs', but it's not an issue for him.
>
>How easy can you get? If a 6 year and and 4 year old kid can use it,
>I would suggest it's reasonably ready for any office user.
>
>I no longer have to try to track down lost icons, deleted files etc.,
>because there's a security model which means the kids cannot delete
>important chunks of the machine.
>
>Of course, I wouldn't expect my 4 and 6 year old kids to be able to
>install debian from floppies, cdrom, ftp or whatever, but they're quite
>happy with the pre-install (which I did for them). They're also quite
>happy with a multi-boot scenario, and know which OS to boot for playing
>which games.
>
>I know that there's a general trend towards assuming zero IQ on the part
>of any user, but the next generation that's coming have no fear of computers
>at all, thus are able to experiment to learn. My kids are also aware that
>the Windows OS 'stops working' and the linux one doesn't (they spotted
>this themselves).
>
>I don't know what 'intuitive' means, and I don't think my kids do, at least
>in terms of user interface on the pc. I do know that my kids have no
>trouble using linux at both the text console and X with multiple window
>managers.
>
>Oddly enough, the 6 year-old asked to have X-windows system put on his
>machine because he wanted the fish-tank and xeyes. Interesting what
>catches the eye of the up-coming consumer, I thought. The _really_
>like the penguin with the pint on the sparc version :).
>
>Of course you can argue that 'linux isn't ready for the desktop' all day.
>I'm not very sure what that statement means. I don't undertstand the
>'it's not suitable for John Q' statements either. It's certainly no
>problem for my children.
>
Same here. My 3 year old loves Asteroids, Snake Race and Connect Four.
I have a 486 that I set up with windows 95 and some games for him but
he locks it up on a regular basis and now don't even want to try it. I'm
going to turn it into a firewall.
He don't know how to log on or type in commands on a terminal yet but
he can use the menus and goes for the XEyes and XTeddy and Xroaches all
the time.
He does like to mess around with the desktop and panel. removing stuff
and deleting. But all I have to do is delete his .kde folder and it's back
to the default. Far better system for a kid to learn on than Windows.
--
Topaz Crow -- No replies by email, sorry.
Reply to alt.anonymous.messages Subject: ATTN: Topaz Crow
PGP/GPG: DSS: 0xBADA36EA RSA: 0x357245A1
Using SuSE 7.0 and Slackware 7.1
------------------------------
From: Mike Byrns <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Of course, there is a down side...
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 06:33:35 GMT
Les Mikesell wrote:
> "Mike Byrns" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > >
> > > Maybe the philosophy of Linux is that the OS isn't so bloated and
> unwieldy
> > > that you need to rush out and buy a better CPU, video card, sound card
> and
> > > hard disk just to squeeze out something that resembles acceptable
> > > performance from your machine. Maybe the thought of being able to add
> the
> > > components you want -- instead of being saddled with everything some
> other
> > > clown thinks should be part of the OS -- is the attraction. Maybe it's
> the
> > > fact that you can actually do something that resembles security, instead
> > > of leaking your information to every skriptkiddie who knows how to query
> > > TCP port 139 or UDP port 137.
> > >
> > > Or maybe not.
> >
> > I'll go with "maybe not" for $1000, Alex...
>
> Yes, note that windows 2000 can arbitrarily decide to use some other port
> for file sharing, bypassing any idea of security you thought you had gained
> by blocking 137 and 139. Fun stuff...
>
> Les Mikesell
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Bullshit Les. Show some proof. My default install of Pro didn't even have
NetBIOS over TCP enabled so the port was rejecting connections. When I
installed the Workstation service it was stealthed. I've NMAPed my box and
nothing is open that I don't want and that's OUT OF THE BOX.
------------------------------
From: David Dorward <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Which distribution do I get?
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 06:57:49 +0000
T wrote:
> I have a simple qestion: what distribution of linux should I get?
> I want to design web pages, possibly host them, java programming, c++ (I
> want to learn it), etc. I know practically nothing about unix or linux,
> so any good sources of information (it's a pain in the butt to search
> through everything that comes up when you search for anything on the net)
> would be GREATlY appreciated! Thanks
http://www.linux.org/
http://www.linux.com/
http://www.linuxdot.org/
http://www.google.com
For a newbie I usually sugest Mandrake 7.2 which is one of the most
userfriendly, but if you plan to do Java I suggest not using the Java
compiler included but downloading the Sun one (http://www.javasoft.com), it
isn't open source but has (IMO) much better error messages!
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (David Steinberg)
Subject: Re: MS Office goes SUBSCRIPTION!
Date: 21 Nov 2000 07:01:47 GMT
Erik Funkenbusch ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
: Also, it doesn't stop working after your subscription is up. It simply
: stops allow you to create new documents.
The only article that I've read on the subject says that a user will still
be able to open and print existing documents. It says nothing about
saving...
Can you find any source that claims that the user will be permitted to
edit and save documents after the subscription exires?
--
David Steinberg -o)
Computer Engineering Undergrad, UBC / \
[EMAIL PROTECTED] _\_v
------------------------------
From: Mike Byrns <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Of course, there is a down side...
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 07:03:36 GMT
Les Mikesell wrote:
> "Mike Byrns" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > >
> > > Maybe the philosophy of Linux is that the OS isn't so bloated and
> unwieldy
> > > that you need to rush out and buy a better CPU, video card, sound card
> and
> > > hard disk just to squeeze out something that resembles acceptable
> > > performance from your machine. Maybe the thought of being able to add
> the
> > > components you want -- instead of being saddled with everything some
> other
> > > clown thinks should be part of the OS -- is the attraction. Maybe it's
> the
> > > fact that you can actually do something that resembles security, instead
> > > of leaking your information to every skriptkiddie who knows how to query
> > > TCP port 139 or UDP port 137.
> > >
> > > Or maybe not.
> >
> > I'll go with "maybe not" for $1000, Alex...
>
> Yes, note that windows 2000 can arbitrarily decide to use some other port
> for file sharing, bypassing any idea of security you thought you had gained
> by blocking 137 and 139. Fun stuff...
>
> Les Mikesell
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Bullshit Les. Show some proof. My default install of Pro didn't even
have
NetBIOS over TCP enabled so the port was rejecting connections. When I
uninstalled the Workstation service it was stealthed. I've NMAPed my
box and
nothing is open that I don't want and that's OUT OF THE BOX. BTW I'm
not "blocking" anything. Windows does not respond when the services are
not installed on the interface. Never has.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 07:05:58 +0000
From: Jacques Guy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Linux Sux
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> DOESN'T WORK WITH PRINTORS OR MADAMS.
Hey, that's right! Claire Lynn can't get it to
work -- she's always bitching about Linux
croaking on her, however much she tries to
get it to suck. "Printor"? Is that American
English for "pimp"? Drestin! Where are you?
Tell us again about your experience with
Linux, will you?
------------------------------
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