Linux-Advocacy Digest #598, Volume #30 Fri, 1 Dec 00 22:13:04 EST
Contents:
Re: Whistler review. ("Chad C. Mulligan")
Re: Linux is awful ("Les Mikesell")
Re: Whistler review. ("Chad C. Mulligan")
Re: Why is MS copying Sun??? ("Chad C. Mulligan")
Re: Why is MS copying Sun??? ("Chad C. Mulligan")
Re: Why is MS copying Sun??? ("Chad C. Mulligan")
Re: Why is MS copying Sun??? ("Chad C. Mulligan")
Re: Why is MS copying Sun??? ("Chad C. Mulligan")
Re: Why is MS copying Sun??? ("Chad C. Mulligan")
Re: Why is MS copying Sun??? ("Chad C. Mulligan")
Re: Linux is awful ("Les Mikesell")
Re: Whistler review. ("Les Mikesell")
Re: Windoze 2000 - just as shitty as ever ("Les Mikesell")
Re: Windoze 2000 - just as shitty as ever ("Les Mikesell")
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "Chad C. Mulligan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Subject: Re: Whistler review.
Date: Sat, 02 Dec 2000 02:03:51 GMT
"Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Static66 wrote:
> >
> > On Mon, 27 Nov 2000 20:43:39 -0500, "Aaron R. Kulkis"
> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
<trimmed>
> > >>
> > >> NT is far superior, Win2K even more, and Whistler just that much
more.
> > >
> > >Yeah, right. Show me even ONE NT box that has stayed up for 3 months,
> > >let alone 14 months.
> >
> > I have three here in my house that have been running for months
> > without a crash or reboot..they get used everyday quite heavily..
>
> prove it.
>
Prove he doesn't.
> > >
> > >>
> > >> -Chad
>
>
> --
> Aaron R. Kulkis
> Unix Systems Engineer
> ICQ # 3056642
>
>
<trimmed ARK...you're a retard.>
------------------------------
From: "Les Mikesell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Linux is awful
Date: Sat, 02 Dec 2000 02:04:09 GMT
"Pete Goodwin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Les Mikesell) wrote in
> <EVDV5.27465$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>
> >They aren't problems to anyone but you. We all know that ISA cards
> >can't have all their settings detected reliable and attempts to probe and
> >guess will result in locking up some systems.
>
> So when I see the statement "this hardware is supported", I should take it
> with a pinch of salt?
There is a difference between support and black magic. No one but
you knows where you put those jumpers, and there is a perfectly
reasonable way to tell Linux about it that doesn't involve usenet.
>
> > All of us including you
> >know the correct way to handle this non-problem, and it isn't to
> >complain in an advocacy group.
>
> I'm not complaining, I'm pointing out that there are things that are
> claimed to be supported but don't appear to be.
As I recall, the problem involved your card settings, not anything
to do with the drivers.
> > I'll agree that there are real problems,
> >just not those, and not that a reasonable response to them is complaining
> >in an advocacy group, especially not before asking for the solution
> >or work-around in the technical groups. It is not only non-productive
> >it is anti-productive and most likely serves some other agenda. Why
> >complain to people who you know don't share the imagined or
> >even real problem?
>
> Because it is indicative of the malady of Linux.
Idiot users? All OS's have those. Businesses spend a fortune
for whole teams of people to keep some of them working at all.
Linux doesn't have that expensive support system - but it doesn't
need it that badly either.
Les Mikesell
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
------------------------------
From: "Chad C. Mulligan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Subject: Re: Whistler review.
Date: Sat, 02 Dec 2000 02:05:14 GMT
"Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Simon Palko wrote:
> >
<trimmed>
>
> What part of "UNDOCUMENTED" do you not understand???
>
> There are entire BOOKS covering undocumented Lose32 APIs.
>
Anyone else see the irony in this post???
<trimmed>
------------------------------
From: "Chad C. Mulligan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.lang.java.advocacy
Subject: Re: Why is MS copying Sun???
Date: Sat, 02 Dec 2000 02:06:53 GMT
"T. Max Devlin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Said Chad C. Mulligan in comp.os.linux.advocacy on Fri, 01 Dec 2000
> [...]
> >Huh? The quote BLANK FILE is still built to support all the current
> >versions features and the old version still hadn't the prescience to be
able
> >to read those attributes.
>
> What attributes? ITS A BLANK FILE!
No it's an empty template. Got the point now.
>
> >If that is so simple how come WPCorp never could
> >do that either.
>
> Actually, they did. WordPerfect (which hasn't been WordPerfect
> Corporation for a few years now) always handled conversions much better
> than the monopoly crapware.
>
Of the time, Not any more.
> >IAC, the market was always driven by new versions
> >supporting old formats not the ludicrous complaint that older versions
> >should support newer file types.
>
> The fact is, your entire argument about "new features" is entirely
> bogus. You don't know what these features are, why they required a few
> file format, or anything. You're forced into the position of insisting
> that every change is an improvement, because MS said it was.
>
Nope.
> --
> T. Max Devlin
> *** The best way to convince another is
> to state your case moderately and
> accurately. - Benjamin Franklin ***
>
> Sign the petition and keep Deja's archive alive!
> http://www2.PetitionOnline.com/dejanews/petition.html
>
>
> -----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
> http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
> -----== Over 80,000 Newsgroups - 16 Different Servers! =-----
------------------------------
From: "Chad C. Mulligan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.lang.java.advocacy
Subject: Re: Why is MS copying Sun???
Date: Sat, 02 Dec 2000 02:07:55 GMT
"T. Max Devlin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Said Chad C. Mulligan in comp.os.linux.advocacy on Fri, 01 Dec 2000
> >"T. Max Devlin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> >news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> >> Said James A. Robertson in comp.os.linux.advocacy on Thu, 30 Nov 2000
> >> 05:37:51 GMT;
> >> >In any market, the lead vendor doesn't need to worry about this. MS
> >> >doesn't worry about making it easy to exchange documents for exactly
the
> >> >same reason that Sun doesn't make the JVM a better environment for
other
> >> >languages - They don't have to.
> >>
> >> The law says they do. Your consideration of "the lead vendor" is that
> >> they are allowed to monopolize, because the free market often cannot
> >> prevent them from doing so. However, it doesn't matter *how much*
> >> market power (market share) you have, you're still not allowed to
> >> monopolize. Whether a producer "has to" do something is predicated on
> >> the consideration that what will force them to do it is the market's
> >> ability to acquire alternative products if they don't. When a "lead
> >> vendor" doesn't worry about whether their customers would choose an
> >> alternative, based on their ability to control prices or exclude
> >> competition to the point where the customers don't or can't choose an
> >> alternative, they are not competing, they are monopolizing, and that is
> >> always an illegal act, and therefore something I'd say they truly do
> >> have to worry about.
> >
> >So you are saying that if I write an application that creates a file of
an
> >efficient format for my application.
>
> How about just a format? Let's not pretend to be prescient about how
> efficient it is.
>
> >The market likes my application and a
> >majority buy it. Then a copy cat comes along and creates a similar
> >application, it is my responsibility to make sure he can read my files.
> >
> >Not!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>
> Ummm, yes. It is your responsibility, BECAUSE YOU WANT TO REMAIN
> COMPETITIVE, to make sure your competitor can read your files. If he
> can't, that makes your files less valuable to your customers, which
> makes your product less valuable to your customers. Using market share
> to deter competition is illegal.
>
Bullshit. It has nothing to do with market share it has to do with
intellectual property.
>
> --
> T. Max Devlin
> *** The best way to convince another is
> to state your case moderately and
> accurately. - Benjamin Franklin ***
>
> Sign the petition and keep Deja's archive alive!
> http://www2.PetitionOnline.com/dejanews/petition.html
>
>
> -----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
> http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
> -----== Over 80,000 Newsgroups - 16 Different Servers! =-----
------------------------------
From: "Chad C. Mulligan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.lang.java.advocacy
Subject: Re: Why is MS copying Sun???
Date: Sat, 02 Dec 2000 02:09:50 GMT
"Steve Mading" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:90945d$g46$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> In comp.os.linux.advocacy Chad C. Mulligan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>
> : Of course if I'm the power user I could ask them the voltage and
frequency
> : and buitd a transformer/bridge to adjust their feeds to my needs.
>
> This analogy doesn't match up to the Microsoft Word situation for
> two reasons:
>
> 1 - The notion of how AC power works is not patented, protected
> information. The knowlege of how to make a transformer/bridge to
> go from one frequency/voltage/amps to another is public knowlege
> for those willing to take the time to learn it.
>
> 2- If all that varies from vendor to vendor is those three
> variables (freq/volt/amp), then you don't need to spend months
> on one special solution that only applies to one vendor like you
> do with word processor formats.
>
Correct because the supplier in our case has, and always has provided
transformer applications free.
------------------------------
From: "Chad C. Mulligan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.lang.java.advocacy
Subject: Re: Why is MS copying Sun???
Date: Sat, 02 Dec 2000 02:10:41 GMT
"Ketil Z Malde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> "Chad C. Mulligan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>
> > OK Les, Please explain to all of us how to write in version x of any
> > program support for features in version of x+2 of that same program.
Are
> > you psychic or psychotic?
>
> You don't have to be either, just a bit less than dim-witted. If you
> use e.g. SGML for your data format, it isn't very hard to be forward
> compatible.
>
But that isn't the case, and IIRC nobody is doing that.
> Your old application may not be able to understand new features, but
> it will be able to work with files created by newer software, and a
> modified file could still preserve any of the new features when you
> store it.
>
> -kzm
> --
> If I haven't seen further, it is by standing in the footprints of giants
------------------------------
From: "Chad C. Mulligan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.lang.java.advocacy
Subject: Re: Why is MS copying Sun???
Date: Sat, 02 Dec 2000 02:11:45 GMT
"Bob Hauck" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> On Fri, 01 Dec 2000 06:26:05 GMT, Chad C. Mulligan
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> >"Bob Hauck" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> >news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> >> On Fri, 01 Dec 2000 02:31:10 GMT, Chad C. Mulligan
> >> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >>
> >> >Then a copy cat comes along and creates a similar
> >> >application, it is my responsibility to make sure he can read my
files.
> >>
> >> Only...they aren't your files. They are your customer's files.
> >
> >Half rabbit. s/my files/my file formats/
>
> You not wanting competitors to know your file format adversely affects
> your customer's ability to use their own data. Your "rights" as a
> vendor have to be balanced with your customer's rights to their data.
>
OK, but my customers, by definition, already have my application and by
extension access to their data. Moot point.
>
> --
> -| Bob Hauck
> -| To Whom You Are Speaking
> -| http://www.haucks.org/
------------------------------
From: "Chad C. Mulligan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.lang.java.advocacy
Subject: Re: Why is MS copying Sun???
Date: Sat, 02 Dec 2000 02:14:10 GMT
"Steve Mading" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:9093b2$g46$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> In comp.os.linux.advocacy Chad C. Mulligan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>
> : "Les Mikesell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> : news:DaiV5.26838$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> :>
> :> "Ayende Rahien" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> :> news:903l4f$57ru$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> :> >
> :> >
> :> > About the documents, I can read documents made in office 97 or 2000
with
> :> > Word 6.
> :> > File > Save As > Word 6.0
> :> > No problems there.
> :>
> :> How do you do that when you only have word 6.0 and an office 97
document?
> :> And please don't tell me about the conversion program that was released
> :> much later.
> :>
>
> : OK Les, Please explain to all of us how to write in version x of any
> : program support for features in version of x+2 of that same program.
Are
> : you psychic or psychotic?
>
> Take HTML as an example - even if you use a new feature that didn't
> exist in a previous version, a browser designed to read the previous
> version will simply ignore the few parts it doesn't understand,
> while still showing the parts it can understand. Thus a user of an
> antiquated browser still can see your text, but maybe not in the
> right font, or maybe not formatted the way you wanted, but this is
> a damn sight better than refusing to render the document at all.
> (Which is, unfortunately, what happens in most Word Processors,
> especially Word - since Word's document format is really nothing
> more than a dump-the-structs style of binary file. - If it becomes
> changed by so much as one new inserted integer, the whole thing is
> unreadable.)
>
Try reading HTML 1.1 web pages with Netscrape 1......
------------------------------
From: "Chad C. Mulligan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.lang.java.advocacy
Subject: Re: Why is MS copying Sun???
Date: Sat, 02 Dec 2000 02:15:35 GMT
"Steve Mading" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:9093l6$g46$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> In comp.os.linux.advocacy Chad C. Mulligan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>
> : So you are saying that if I write an application that creates a file of
an
> : efficient format for my application. The market likes my application
and a
> : majority buy it. Then a copy cat comes along and creates a similar
> : application, it is my responsibility to make sure he can read my files.
>
> : Not!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>
> You are falsely assuming that all the other word processors came
> after yours did. That doesn't apply here. We're talking about MS
> Word, which was not the first. Nice attempt to whitewash the
> issue by making the implication that all other vendors are the
> "copycats". Nice try.
>
Actually my hypothetical was based on my experience with Lotus 123 and
Quattro Pro/Excel and their cross (in)compatibilities.
------------------------------
From: "Les Mikesell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.linux,comp.os.linux.x,comp.os.ms-windows,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: Linux is awful
Date: Sat, 02 Dec 2000 02:38:35 GMT
"Ayende Rahien" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:908par$b42s$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>
> > Just because you haven't had problems doesn't mean that no one else
> > has problems.
> >
> > You have no idea how many hours I have wasted trying to get
> > Windows installs to work right.
>
> Oh, I've many problems, and I've spent many hours trying to install
> Windows9x.
> But I simply don't agree that it's that hard to fix things in it.
Sometimes it isn't hard - it is impossible. I have an ISA card modem
that just won't work with win95 even though it works fine DOS and
Linux. It is jumpered to turn off pnp, but win95 manages to move
it somewhere and make it have an irq conflict with the 2nd IDE
controller.
>
> > In theory you can install multiple drivers without a reboot but I
> > have found that it isn't a good idea. If the machine doesn't
> > work you have no idea which one caused the problem.
>
> Actually, you can usually tell by looking at the hardware panel in system
> properties, and look for a yellow exlamation.
> (I assume this is what you mean when you say a problem, if not, please
> spesify, win9x has a *lot* of problems).
You can sometimes see 2 that conflict, but that doesn't tell you why
or how to keep win9x from shuffling things around by itself.
Les Mikesell
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
------------------------------
From: "Les Mikesell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Subject: Re: Whistler review.
Date: Sat, 02 Dec 2000 02:38:35 GMT
"Ayende Rahien" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:907teu$7nph$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>
>
> > So? First, my job description ventures far further than administrating
> just webservers, I'm
> > just using webserving as one (1) example of where NT/2k can't keep up.
In
> any case, though, my
> > point is, if NT/2k can't handle the stress of being a webserver, how is
it
> going to handle an
> > equal amount of _any_ activity, webserving-related or not?
>
> Win2k handle the biggest site in the world, and the second most popular.
With help from load-balancing equipment that hides the dead ones,
protects them from pings, and the like.
Les Mikesell
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
------------------------------
From: "Les Mikesell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: Windoze 2000 - just as shitty as ever
Date: Sat, 02 Dec 2000 02:59:40 GMT
"Chris Ahlstrom" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> >
> > How can you make money by owning copyright wrapped in a trade secret?
Are
> > you talking about licensing software instead of selling it?
>
> As far as I know, there is nothing to prevent you from
> selling GPL software. Linux vendors do it all the time.
> I buy those products for the convenience of the bundling and all
> the work that went into adding scripts to make configuration
> and installation simpler.
You can sell a copy for anything you want, but if it is GPL'd you
can't prevent your customer from putting copies in a prettier
box and undercutting your price.
Les Mikesell
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
------------------------------
From: "Les Mikesell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: Windoze 2000 - just as shitty as ever
Date: Sat, 02 Dec 2000 03:05:38 GMT
"Ayende Rahien" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:908h38$b5hh$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>
> > >
> > > I can read a variety of formats, and there is always HTML & PDF
> >
> > Ah, yes, PDF, just about the only support for PostScript on
> > Windozzzzzzz.
>
> Are you really so ignorant, or are you playing?
>
> How to handle postscript files in Windows.
> http://www-pcs.fnal.gov/printing/pc-ps-print/
> http://www.cs.wisc.edu/~ghost/gsview/index.html
> http://www.pdfzone.com/products/software/tool_PSAlter.html
> http://www.pdfzone.com/products/software/tool_HTMLDOC.html
> http://www.lincolnco.com/converters.htm
> http://www.lincolnco.com/viewers.htm
> http://www.rops.org/
>
> Want to repeat that statement?
Yes, in spite of Microsoft, it is possible to view postscript with
third party products. I suppose you could even print with them
to a postscript printer if you don't mind doing a software RIP
to windows format, then back to postscript in the print driver
but I have to cringe just thinking about it.
Les Mikesell
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
------------------------------
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