Linux-Advocacy Digest #656, Volume #30 Tue, 5 Dec 00 06:13:02 EST
Contents:
Sound problem ("mu6sys")
Re: Red hat becoming illegal? ("Donal K. Fellows")
Re: Red hat becoming illegal? ("Tom Wilson")
Re: Linux is awful (Ilja Booij)
Re: Linux growth rate explosion! ("Simon Cooke")
Re: A Microsoft exodus! ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: A Microsoft exodus! ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: A Microsoft exodus! ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: A Microsoft exodus! ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: Windows 2000 sucks compared to linux ("Erik Funkenbusch")
Re: Linux is awful ("Erik Funkenbusch")
Re: A Microsoft exodus! ("Tom Wilson")
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "mu6sys" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Sound problem
Date: Mon, 4 Dec 2000 17:30:25 +0200
Hi!
How can I configure my soundblaster card for Linux Red Hat 6.2?
sndconfig doesn't help: during initialisation everything OK(I hear sounds
and music),but I can't play wav and mp2 files.
what can be the problem?
please mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Alex
P.S.
Can anybody help me find video fullscreen packet that worlk from the command
line?
thanks.
------------------------------
From: "Donal K. Fellows" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Red hat becoming illegal?
Date: Tue, 05 Dec 2000 09:28:52 +0000
Chad Myers wrote:
> It's interesting to note that Ronald Regan (and probably Jimmy Carter and
> John Kennedy for that matter) would never step into the Oval Office without
> a suit coat on.
Dress codes vary between generations, and I'm sure you'd think it
ridiculous if Presidents had to wear powdered wigs when working in
the Oval Office. :^)
Donal.
--
Donal K. Fellows http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/~fellowsd/ [EMAIL PROTECTED]
-- Name me one elf who wants to go to Blackpool after he dies.
-- Raymond E. Feist on [EMAIL PROTECTED]
------------------------------
From: "Tom Wilson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Red hat becoming illegal?
Date: Tue, 05 Dec 2000 09:36:29 GMT
"Donal K. Fellows" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Chad Myers wrote:
> > It's interesting to note that Ronald Regan (and probably Jimmy Carter
and
> > John Kennedy for that matter) would never step into the Oval Office
without
> > a suit coat on.
>
> Dress codes vary between generations, and I'm sure you'd think it
> ridiculous if Presidents had to wear powdered wigs when working in
> the Oval Office. :^)
It'd look a damned sight better than some of the toupees and weaves floating
around Washington!
--
Tom Wilson
Registered Linux User #194021
Also...
NT 4.0 User
Win 95/98 User
They're operating systems...Not religions
GET A LIFE!
>
> Donal.
> --
> Donal K. Fellows http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/~fellowsd/
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> -- Name me one elf who wants to go to Blackpool after he dies.
> -- Raymond E. Feist on
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
------------------------------
From: Ilja Booij <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Linux is awful
Date: 05 Dec 2000 10:35:01 +0100
kiwiunixman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> In my original post, I was not trying to be a anti-Linux asshole, I was
> simply expressing IMHO about Linux, yes, having lots of editors and
> stuff does give the user selection, however, wouldn't it be great to
> have one, opensource editor that combines the +'s from each one.
The +'s from each one?
do you know how many editors there are out there?
and could you combine all +'s from emacs and vim for instance:
just look at the differences in commands (and i must know, i'm using
both now.. (ok there's vim keybindings in emacs, but it isn't the
real thing)
<ESC>:wq (DAMN!)
<snip>
ilja
------------------------------
From: "Simon Cooke" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.lang.java.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Linux growth rate explosion!
Date: Tue, 05 Dec 2000 10:07:54 GMT
"Steve Mading" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:90hcqc$fl8$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> In comp.os.linux.advocacy Ayende Rahien <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> : "Steve Mading" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> : news:909ebd$nc2$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>
> :> No. The solution is to make it so that normal user ID's can't
> :> futz with the system, thus killing two birds with one stone by
> :> also solving the problem of local system security.
>
> : Done on the non-9x line.
>
> Not really. How does one temporarily "su" to Administrator just
> to run one GUI app, and then get out, without logging all the way
> out and back in? That sort of thing is needed or else people who
> can will tend to run as Admin all the time so they can get things
> done without having to log out and in all the time.
On Win2K:
Create a shortcut to the app.
Right-mouse on the shortcut. Select "Properties"
Select "Run as different user"
It will then ask you to log in as another user when you run that command.
There's also an equivalent to SU for the command line, but I can't remember
what that is right now.
Simon
------------------------------
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: A Microsoft exodus!
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Tue, 05 Dec 2000 09:05:21 GMT
Steve Mading writes:
> Tim Smith wrote:
>> Aaron R. Kulkis wrote:
>>> I wrote:
>>>> Aaron R. Kulkis wrote:
>>>>> Big fucking deal. NOTHING about computers is "intuitive"
>>>> Incorrect; consider the power switch.
>>> Only to those with previous experience with power switches.
>>>
>>> Put a computer in front of a person from a remote village which
>>> has no electrical service, and let's see how "intuitive" the
>>> power switch is.
>> OK, now you are getting silly. Give those villagers electricity, and
>> all the usual electrical applicances other than computers, and let them
>> become comfortable with them, THEN give them a computer. The power switch
>> on the computer will be intuitive to them.
> This demonstrates the point, actually. It's "intuative" only
> because it's similar to what was already learned.
Why do you say "only"? It's quite sufficient to justify use of the
term "intuitive".
> At some point, it *did* have to be learned because it was not
> intuative *yet*.
The whole point of designing something that is intuitive is to
avoid the need to "come up the learning curve". That is, you
intentionally try to use something familiar, something that has
already been learned, so that you don't have to learn something
new. One of the impediments to the adoption of new things is
the "can't teach an old dog new tricks" syndrome.
> If you show someone how to use vi who *hasn't* used a different
> sort of editor yet, it's not as difficult to teach it to them.
The fact that it needs to be learned is what makes something not
intuitive.
> The difficulty comes from assuming incorrectly that it should
> behave exactly the same as some other company's editor.
However, if you've used several screen editors and they all behave
in such a way that the pressing of a letter key either overwrites
or inserts that letter into the text, then vi's "every letter is a
command" approach will not be intuitive.
> Vi is *different*, which makes it harder to learn,
It also makes it not intuitive.
> but this difference is also the source of its incredible speed at
> the hands of an experienced user (fingers don't lose the home-row
> keys - everything complex can be done without moving your right
> hand over to the 'special' keys, and this makes a gigantic
> difference in typing speed.)
Power is not the issue here. You'd get greater adoption of the
editor if there wasn't a steep learning curve. If the only way
you can get power is to force a steep learning curve, then the
authors should be prepared to accept slow adoption.
> There's that, and the powerful commands that only take a
> few keystrokes, like ">%" to indent a squiggly-brace section, or
> "d$" to delete to end-of-line, and so on. They are not
> instinctive to the new user,
As someone else pointed out, there is a difference betweeen
instinct and intuition. The discussion is about the latter.
> but they *are* internally consistent, so picking up new commands
> is intuative to someone who has the basics.
Not necessarily. Having learned that every letter key is a command
won't necessarily help you identify which letter is used for which
command.
> (d-something means delete it, and '$' means end-of line,
It also means end of file. Try :$ and see where it takes you.
> therefore 'd$' means delete to end-of-line
Why shouldn't someone think that it could mean delete to the end of
the file?
> - it's internally consisent,
End of line and end of file are not that consistent. At least they
both mean "end".
> and thus very fast to build upon your knowlege once you
> get over the hump of initial contact with it.)
If you find that some new command is intuitive after having learned
several other commands, then there is something about computers that
is intuitive, contrary to Aaron's claim.
------------------------------
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: A Microsoft exodus!
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Tue, 05 Dec 2000 09:13:59 GMT
Steve Mading writes:
>> Why are you citing evidence that destroys your argument, Aaron?
>> Familiarity (or experience, to use my word for it) does not have
>> to be universal before something can be declared "intuitive".
>> Here's a good rule of thumb: if you need to consult the manual,
>> it's not intuitive.
> Everyone has to "consult the manual" (or a friend, or the on-line
> help) at some point early in their learning process.
I know some first-time computer users that did not need to consult
the manual or a friend to know what to do with the power cord, for
example.
> Intuative means similar to what you already know, which means that
> once you've learned A, its easier to learn B and C if they are
> intuatively similar to A.
So if your computer's power switch is similar to the power switch on
your television or radio, then it could be intuitive, contrary to
Aaron's claim.
> But if you start with someone who doesn't already know A, B, and
> C, then they aren't intuative YET.
Aaron's claim doesn't include the "yet" part. That's where the
problem with his argument lies.
> Vi is only unintuative for people who already are used to using
> some other editor that works differently.
My point is that vi seems to be unique in its default "every letter
is a command" design approach. That uniqueness is what makes vi
not intuitive. I did ask whether there are any other screen editors
that use that design approach, besides vi clones, of course (such as
elVIs or steVIe), but so far nobody has mentioned any, so I have no
reason to change my statement about vi's uniqueness in that regard.
> To someone who doesn't know *any* editors, and has had no contact
> with them, it's no more or less intuative than anything else.
That's equivalent to Aaron's "primitive tribesman" argument. Just
because it may not be intuitive to one person does not mean it can't
be intuitive to someone else.
> Vi's only crime here is being unique.
Uniqueness breeds non-intuitiveness. I haven't said whether that is
good or bad.
------------------------------
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: A Microsoft exodus!
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Tue, 05 Dec 2000 09:16:54 GMT
Marty writes:
>> Invective five times does not make a logical argument, Aaron.
> How ironic.
Where is the alleged irony, Marty?
> DT] Still suffering from reading comprehension problems, Marty?
> DT] Reading comprehension problem noted again.
> DT] Reading comprehension problem noted again.
> DT] Reading comprehension problem noted again.
> DT] Still suffering from memory problems, Marty?
Where did any of those appear in my responses to Aaron, Marty?
> MA] I'll give you a limit of 5 before the discussion ends.
Any particular reason you chose to reproduce that quotation, Marty?
Do you intend to apply that to this discussion? Of course, if you do,
I know better than to believe it.
I'll also note that you chose not to say anything about the issue,
which is whether anything about a computer can be intuitive. No
surprise there. You'd rather play more of your "infantile game".
------------------------------
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: A Microsoft exodus!
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Tue, 05 Dec 2000 09:23:28 GMT
Tom Wilson writes:
>>>>>>> Aaron R. Kulkis wrote:
>>>>>>>> Tom Wilson wrote:
>>>>>>>>> I wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> Aaron R. Kulkis writes:
>>>>>>>>>>>> Donovan Rebbechi writes:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> The movement keys are placed sensibly in vi (hjkl),
>>>>>>>>>>>> Which is not intuitive. First-time vi users, if they try to do
>>>>>>>>>>> Big fucking deal. NOTHING about computers is "intuitive"
>>>>>>>>>> Incorrect; consider the power switch.
>>>>>>>>> You'd be surprised....
>>>>>>>>> Never underestimate the idiot factor.
>>>>>>>> The power switch is NOT "intuitive"
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Proof: put a primative tribesman in a room with electric appliances
>>>>>>>> and tell him to start the things into operation.
>>>>>>> I'm in agreement.
>>>>>> You shouldn't be. His example doesn't represent proof for a power
>>>>>> switch not being intuitive.
>>>>> I'm agreeing that my choice of "idiot" was wrong.
>>>> But Aaron didn't say that your choice of "idiot" was wrong.
>>> He did that very thing by intimating the situation to be a question of
>>> intuitiveness as opposed to stupidity.
>> He didn't even intimate that situation. He simply repeated his claim
>> that the power switch is not intuitive, and then tried to offer some
>> proof for that claim.
> Well then, offer a valid and credible argument to the contrary
I already have. Where have you been?
> and can the foolishness.
What alleged foolishness?
>>>>> The hypothesis, strange as it is, points it out. It's a matter of
>>>>> experience and environment, not intellect.
>>>> "Experience" is the word I used for it. Someone else chose
>>>> "familiarity".
>>>>> I used the word idiot because I had been trouble-shooting over
>>>>> the phone to complete morons that evening and had a dim view of
>>>>> humanity as a result.
>>>> Someone who couldn't find the "any" key on the keyboard?
>>> Worse. This was an professional moron.
>>>
>>> An old Novell customer who consistantly forgets his Administrator
>>> password. He's STILL running Novell 3.12 which is good, in a way,
>>> because you can hack into console debug mode and trick it into
>>> believing all system passwords have time-expired. That way he can
>>> log on as Administrator and get prompted for a new one.
>>>
>>> Ever tried to talk someone, who constantly interrupts and thinks he
>>> knows everything, through hacking Novell from the debug console?
>> No; I don't know anyone who hacks through Novell debug consoles.
> It's a not-so-common trick used to remedy the above situation and it only
> works for 3.12. I'm certainly not the only one who knows about it. For
> years, Novell denied it was possible, though, since it was admitting to a
> major security loophole. They closed it in the later versions.
What fraction of Novell users are still using 3.12?
>>> I would have done it myself, but, he lives 600 miles away.
>> Behind a firewall?
> You have to have physical access to the server's console to do this. Its' a
> security loophole, not a gaping chasm. Besides, you just can't assume that
> all businesses are online. This one is a smallish construction company and
> has no need to be.
>>>>>>> The language I used, in hindsight, was wrong.
>>>>>> That doesn't justify your agreement.
>>>>> How do you figure? I was agreeing that my wording was off track and
>>>>> Aaron's post had pointed that out.
>>>> Aaron's post wasn't pointing to your wording. He was simply repeating
>>>> his claim that the power switch was not intuitive.
>>> He was pointing to my wording's intent - That it was a question of
>>> intellegence.
>> Where did he do that?
> You really aren't this dense are you?
I see that you didn't answer my question.
>> AK] The power switch is NOT "intuitive"
Note: no indication of the alleged "pointing to my wording's intent".
>>>>>>> Read: Never underestimate the ignorance factor.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I used "idiot" because i'ts been one of those nights...
>>>>>> Go to the store. Buy a lamp. Take it home. Do you consult a manual
>>>>>> to find out what to do with the cord? I hope not. Yet the
>>>>>> hypothesized "primative tribesman" could have no idea what the cord
>>>>>> is for. Does that prove that the power cord is not intuitive?
>>>>> Oh for God's sake!
>>>> Which presupposes the existence of God.
>>> Yep, you're anal....
>> An illogical conclusion.
> No, an obvoius one.
On what basis do you claim that it is "obvoius" [sic]?
>>>>> His hypothesis was extreme, yes. However, it makes a valid point
>>>>> regarding experience.
>>>> On the contrary, it ignores the essential element of intuitive design,
>>>> which involves experience with similar items. If someone states
>>>> something about trees, you don't go to a desert and then proclaim the
>>>> statement about trees to be wrong.
>>> You watched a lot of Kung Fu as a kid, didn't you?
>> No.
>>> You sound like a fortune cookie.
>> On what basis do you make that ridiculous claim?
> Your "If a tree falls in the woods..." psuedo-intellectual arguments.
I haven't encountered any fortune cookies with "If a tree falls in the
woods..." statements.
> You sound ridiculous.
On what basis do you make that ridiculous claim? (Note the irony.)
> You come across as an unemployed philosophy major.
On what basis do you make that ridiculous claim?
>>>>> You're bordering on anal retention, i'm afraid.
>>>> How ironic.
------------------------------
From: "Erik Funkenbusch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt,comp.os.ms-windows,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: Windows 2000 sucks compared to linux
Date: Tue, 5 Dec 2000 04:45:51 -0600
"Ketil Z Malde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> I'm curious where you get your data, since this doesn't seem to match
> very well what is published on www.tpc.org.
>
> TPC-C scales very close to linearly with CPUs and MHz, as long as you
> break up your database in independent parts. That Compaq and SQL
> Server needs 192 CPUs to beat - with a 20% margin - IBM and DB2 on 128
> CPUs is hardly cleaing DB2's clock.
However, the cost per CPU is probably much higher for the DB2 system.
> > You heard right. DB2 on Datacenter Server racks up a higher TPC-C
> > than DB2 on S-390.
>
> You heard right. IBM has more PC's to stack up than they have
> S/390s. Big deal. It's an entirely synthetic benchmark, and the only
> ones who think clustered TPC-C matters, are people in *.advocacy
> groups.
I don't know, it seems like if you want the most power for the best cost,
you'd use a similar setup.
------------------------------
From: "Erik Funkenbusch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.linux,comp.os.linux.x,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,alt.os.linux,alt.os.linux.mandrake
Subject: Re: Linux is awful
Date: Tue, 5 Dec 2000 04:52:56 -0600
"Tom Wilson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:9M0X5.624$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > Or how about turning on ultra DMA? Windows will often figure out if the
> > drive supports it and enable it. If it doesn't, it's a matter of right
> > clicking the drive in device manager and changing a dropdown box. With
> > Linux, it's figuring out a 20 parameter long hdparm string and figuring
> out
> > where in the startup scripts to put it.
>
> A simple switch added to lilo.conf does it.
Perhaps on some distros, but no longer on Mandrake 7.2, and since Mandrake
is so heavily RH based, I would guess Red Hat as well.
Which is really the point. You can't even always rely on experience you may
have learned from another distribution to get you up to speed on a new one.
You end up doing trial and error for a few days until you get things working
right.
> > What about installing TrueType Fonts? Dozens of steps in Linux, while
> it's
> > just a matter of dragging them to your font folder in Windows.
>
> Mandrake has an X utility that imports them quite well. Just select and
> click. The vast majority of the fonts I use under Linux are Windows
> TrueType.
Hmm.. I haven't found this utility yet. It's certainly not available from
any menus or in the DrakConf.
> > How about setting your monitor refresh rate?
>
> Editing one line in XF86Config, in my case. Didn't even need a man file.
It
> was pretty self explainitory.
As opposed to click a drop down box in a GUI? You honestly think messing
with config files is simple for someone that doesn't know how to set their
VCR?
> > That's just off the top of my head, I can list dozens of tasks that are
> much
> > much harder under Linux than Win 2000. Which tasks are easier under
> Linux?
>
> If easy is all you're after, stick with Windows then.
Why do you insist on changing the subject. The subject was Aaron claiming
that Linux is only more difficult on things that you can't do in Windows.
That's patently not true.
------------------------------
From: "Tom Wilson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy
Subject: Re: A Microsoft exodus!
Date: Tue, 05 Dec 2000 10:59:25 GMT
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:ku2X5.13253$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Tom Wilson writes:
>
> >>>>>>> Aaron R. Kulkis wrote:
>
> >>>>>>>> Tom Wilson wrote:
>
> >>>>>>>>> I wrote:
>
> >>>>>>>>>> Aaron R. Kulkis writes:
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Donovan Rebbechi writes:
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> The movement keys are placed sensibly in vi (hjkl),
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Which is not intuitive. First-time vi users, if they try to
do
>
> >>>>>>>>>>> Big fucking deal. NOTHING about computers is "intuitive"
>
> >>>>>>>>>> Incorrect; consider the power switch.
>
> >>>>>>>>> You'd be surprised....
> >>>>>>>>> Never underestimate the idiot factor.
>
> >>>>>>>> The power switch is NOT "intuitive"
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Proof: put a primative tribesman in a room with electric
appliances
> >>>>>>>> and tell him to start the things into operation.
>
> >>>>>>> I'm in agreement.
>
> >>>>>> You shouldn't be. His example doesn't represent proof for a power
> >>>>>> switch not being intuitive.
>
> >>>>> I'm agreeing that my choice of "idiot" was wrong.
>
> >>>> But Aaron didn't say that your choice of "idiot" was wrong.
>
> >>> He did that very thing by intimating the situation to be a question of
> >>> intuitiveness as opposed to stupidity.
>
> >> He didn't even intimate that situation. He simply repeated his claim
> >> that the power switch is not intuitive, and then tried to offer some
> >> proof for that claim.
>
> > Well then, offer a valid and credible argument to the contrary
>
> I already have. Where have you been?
Reading your drivel.
>
> > and can the foolishness.
>
> What alleged foolishness?
Read your drivel.
>
> >>>>> The hypothesis, strange as it is, points it out. It's a matter of
> >>>>> experience and environment, not intellect.
>
> >>>> "Experience" is the word I used for it. Someone else chose
> >>>> "familiarity".
>
> >>>>> I used the word idiot because I had been trouble-shooting over
> >>>>> the phone to complete morons that evening and had a dim view of
> >>>>> humanity as a result.
>
> >>>> Someone who couldn't find the "any" key on the keyboard?
>
> >>> Worse. This was an professional moron.
> >>>
> >>> An old Novell customer who consistantly forgets his Administrator
> >>> password. He's STILL running Novell 3.12 which is good, in a way,
> >>> because you can hack into console debug mode and trick it into
> >>> believing all system passwords have time-expired. That way he can
> >>> log on as Administrator and get prompted for a new one.
> >>>
> >>> Ever tried to talk someone, who constantly interrupts and thinks he
> >>> knows everything, through hacking Novell from the debug console?
>
> >> No; I don't know anyone who hacks through Novell debug consoles.
>
> > It's a not-so-common trick used to remedy the above situation and it
only
> > works for 3.12. I'm certainly not the only one who knows about it. For
> > years, Novell denied it was possible, though, since it was admitting to
a
> > major security loophole. They closed it in the later versions.
>
> What fraction of Novell users are still using 3.12?
He was refered to as a professional moron for a reason
>
> >>> I would have done it myself, but, he lives 600 miles away.
>
> >> Behind a firewall?
>
> > You have to have physical access to the server's console to do this.
Its' a
> > security loophole, not a gaping chasm. Besides, you just can't assume
that
> > all businesses are online. This one is a smallish construction company
and
> > has no need to be.
>
> >>>>>>> The language I used, in hindsight, was wrong.
>
> >>>>>> That doesn't justify your agreement.
>
> >>>>> How do you figure? I was agreeing that my wording was off track and
> >>>>> Aaron's post had pointed that out.
>
> >>>> Aaron's post wasn't pointing to your wording. He was simply
repeating
> >>>> his claim that the power switch was not intuitive.
>
> >>> He was pointing to my wording's intent - That it was a question of
> >>> intellegence.
>
> >> Where did he do that?
>
> > You really aren't this dense are you?
>
> I see that you didn't answer my question.
Because, as Aaron has said, it has been answered repeatedly.
>
> >> AK] The power switch is NOT "intuitive"
>
> Note: no indication of the alleged "pointing to my wording's intent".
>
> >>>>>>> Read: Never underestimate the ignorance factor.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> I used "idiot" because i'ts been one of those nights...
>
> >>>>>> Go to the store. Buy a lamp. Take it home. Do you consult a
manual
> >>>>>> to find out what to do with the cord? I hope not. Yet the
> >>>>>> hypothesized "primative tribesman" could have no idea what the cord
> >>>>>> is for. Does that prove that the power cord is not intuitive?
>
> >>>>> Oh for God's sake!
>
> >>>> Which presupposes the existence of God.
>
> >>> Yep, you're anal....
>
> >> An illogical conclusion.
>
> > No, an obvoius one.
>
> On what basis do you claim that it is "obvoius" [sic]?
Reading your drivel.
>
> >>>>> His hypothesis was extreme, yes. However, it makes a valid point
> >>>>> regarding experience.
>
> >>>> On the contrary, it ignores the essential element of intuitive
design,
> >>>> which involves experience with similar items. If someone states
> >>>> something about trees, you don't go to a desert and then proclaim the
> >>>> statement about trees to be wrong.
>
> >>> You watched a lot of Kung Fu as a kid, didn't you?
>
> >> No.
>
> >>> You sound like a fortune cookie.
>
> >> On what basis do you make that ridiculous claim?
>
> > Your "If a tree falls in the woods..." psuedo-intellectual arguments.
>
> I haven't encountered any fortune cookies with "If a tree falls in the
> woods..." statements.
Plenty of psuedo-intellectual arguments do.
Fortune cookie statements are just as non-substantive.
>
> > You sound ridiculous.
>
> On what basis do you make that ridiculous claim? (Note the irony.)
Reading your drivel.
>
> > You come across as an unemployed philosophy major.
>
> On what basis do you make that ridiculous claim?
Reading your drivel.
>
> >>>>> You're bordering on anal retention, i'm afraid.
>
> >>>> How ironic.
>
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